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Switch to Forum Live View Is God omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent?
3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 4:21AM #251
Caleb.fuller
Posts: 5

And in response to the more recent debate in this thread, you are all trying to involve science in a philosophical discussion; that is a folly both creationists and atheists seem to share.



God cannot be disproven in science - that was the wisdom of Hobbes, Sartres, Nietzche and a dozen other great atheistic minds. Ultimately, all debate in this matter is meaningless. Christians, you are called to live righteously amongst the faithful, and that when called to account you will be given words by the Holy Spirit, that you will not stand as a fool before men if you are faithful. Atheists, this is an even more pointless argument for you - the only logical maxim which an atheist may possess is "Eat, Drink, and Make Merry," or as Ecclesiastes says, "Everything is Meaningless."



If a man's faith is his comfort when he lies cold and hungry in this short lived life, then leave him his blanket. Men do violence, regardless of their personal beliefs. The Japanese and the Chinese killed as many of each other's people in the name of atheist Buddhism as Christianity and Islam in the Crusades. Hitler was an atheist (see also Darwin) who paid mere lip service to the Christian god, as he saw himself as an heir to an ancient "christian" empire.


Oh, and just to prove how frivolous your debate is, a completely infallible piece of logic - an omnipotent, omniscient deity could create the entire universe an instant before you read this and there would be absolutely no way for you to prove otherwise if he chose not to leave his fingerprints. There, arguments are pointless.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 5:06PM #252
Namchuck
Posts: 11,799

Apr 23, 2012 -- 4:21AM, Caleb.fuller wrote:


And in response to the more recent debate in this thread, you are all trying to involve science in a philosophical discussion; that is a folly both creationists and atheists seem to share.



God cannot be disproven in science - that was the wisdom of Hobbes, Sartres, Nietzche and a dozen other great atheistic minds.


Nonsense, unless, of course, one's hypothesis of 'God' amounts simply to some sort of vague statement. If this is the case, then it can at least be provisionally rejected as silly and unnecessary. If, on the other hand, it is meant as a relatively precise statement about the physical world, then we can investigate God's existence with the well-established hypothetical-deductive method. 


Ultimately, all debate in this matter is meaningless.


Again, nonsense, as Hobbes, Sartre, Nietzche and many dozens of other great atheistic minds identified.


Christians, you are called to live righteously amongst the faithful, and that when called to account you will be given words by the Holy Spirit, that you will not stand as a fool before men if you are faithful. Atheists, this is an even more pointless argument for you - the only logical maxim which an atheist may possess is "Eat, Drink, and Make Merry," or as Ecclesiastes says, "Everything is Meaningless."


Now your simply being ridiculous. Atheism, which you obviously have an impoverished understanding of, simply involves one negation, and one negation doesn't imply all negation, or that I don't believe in G, therefore I don't believe in anything from A  to Z.


The problem with the theist is that he believes, mistakenly, that - in regard to meaning - there is a one-size-fits-all for everyone. The fact is that there are as many 'meanings' as there are people to invent them.


If a man's faith is his comfort when he lies cold and hungry in this short lived life, then leave him his blanket.


Which hardly amounts to a compelling argument for holding or propagating unjustifed beliefs.


Men do violence, regardless of their personal beliefs.


While I would agree with that, it was Blaise Pascal (of wager fame) who said that 'Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction'.


The Japanese and the Chinese killed as many of each other's people in the name of atheist Buddhism as Christianity and Islam in the Crusades.


Falsehood! The Japanese killed in the name of an emperialism based on a religious conviction of the divinity of their emperor, while the Chinese killed each other on the basis of political dogma.


Hitler was an atheist (see also Darwin) who paid mere lip service to the Christian god, as he saw himself as an heir to an ancient "christian" empire.


You seem to luxuriate in falsehood. Hitler never repudiated his Catholic faith (nor was he ever excommunicated - to their calumny - by the Catholic Church), and one would have to wonder about the supposed 'atheism' of a man who decided to stamp 'Gott mis uns' on the belt buckles of the Reich's soldiers. Was it an atheist Fuhrer who ordered all schoolchildren in the National Socialist Reich to begin their day with a prayer to Jesus? Not to God, which might have made a deist of Hitler, but to Jesus, which explicitly labels him a Christian. The same supposedly atheist Hitler who asked Goering and Goebbels, in the presence of Albert Speer who recorded the conversation, to remain within the bosom of the Church, as he himself did to his dying day. "Lip service" indeed.


Oh, and just to prove how frivolous your debate is, a completely infallible piece of logic - an omnipotent, omniscient deity could create the entire universe an instant before you read this and there would be absolutely no way for you to prove otherwise if he chose not to leave his fingerprints.


Yes, but that wouldn't make him a very honest God now, would it? But then, there is not much to admire in the biblical God's ethics and morals in the first place, so maybe he is capable of such dishonesty.


There, arguments are pointless.


All you have shown here is that your  arguments are "pointless"




[ad hominem removed - wc]

Moderated by world citizen on May 06, 2012 - 11:42AM
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3 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 2:05PM #253
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,952

Is God omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent?


Yes! The spiritual TRI-UNE GOD has these attributes and more!


 


God is the perfect spirit being...
He does not have a "mind" to change.
His PLAN for MAN may appear to us as "changing".
Study his CHARACTER and ATTRIBUTES!


My TRI-UNE God IS: ALL "GOOD"!


1. Existent
2. Unified
3. Simple
4. Infinite
5. Eternal
6. Unchanging and unchangeable CHARACTER
7. All Present
8. All Sovereign
9. All Knowing
10. All powerful
11. Perfectly JUST
12. Perfectly LOVING / merciful
13. Perfectly TRUE / Truthful
14. Perfectly FREE
15. Perfectly separate and pure


I BELIEVE the TRI-UNE GOD has all of these attributes and Character.
Why? Like the song..."the Bible tells me so..."

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3 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 3:47AM #254
Namchuck
Posts: 11,799

May 7, 2012 -- 2:05PM, Rgurley4 wrote:


Is God omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent?


Yes! The spiritual TRI-UNE GOD has these attributes and more!


 


God is the perfect spirit being...
He does not have a "mind" to change.
His PLAN for MAN may appear to us as "changing".
Study his CHARACTER and ATTRIBUTES!


My TRI-UNE God IS: ALL "GOOD"!


1. Existent
2. Unified
3. Simple
4. Infinite
5. Eternal
6. Unchanging and unchangeable CHARACTER
7. All Present
8. All Sovereign
9. All Knowing
10. All powerful
11. Perfectly JUST
12. Perfectly LOVING / merciful
13. Perfectly TRUE / Truthful
14. Perfectly FREE
15. Perfectly separate and pure


I BELIEVE the TRI-UNE GOD has all of these attributes and Character.
Why? Like the song..."the Bible tells me so..."




You believe in a whole raft of unjustified things based on an ancient and very faulty book, RGurley!


But one only believes when one doesn't know. The honest man doesn't need a mask to hide his ignorance.


Of course, if the hypothetical God is omniscient and omnipotent, he is also a very nasty deity indeed. This is a reality for the Bible-God believer that they simply cannot hide from. Epicurus summed up the problem for the theist in his series of questions: 'Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence evil?' 

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3 years ago  ::  May 18, 2012 - 4:33PM #255
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,952

Numchack #254
....But one only BELIEVES when one doesn't KNOW....


Nope...just the opposite!


When the head KNOWledge of Man reaches its inevitable finite limits,
spiritual BELIEF / FAITH can then lead Man to his Spiritual Creator.
"Knowledge" spiritually applied = WISDOM!
.
Hebrews 11...Spiritual Faith DEFINED...
 1 Now faith is:
(A.) being SURE of what we HOPE for
and
(B.) (being) CERTAIN of what we do not SEE.


And "EVIL" is simply the absence of the perfect "good" the TRI-UNE GOD...and BELIEF therein.

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3 years ago  ::  May 19, 2012 - 2:58AM #256
Namchuck
Posts: 11,799

May 18, 2012 -- 4:33PM, Rgurley4 wrote:


Numchack #254
....But one only BELIEVES when one doesn't KNOW....


Nope...just the opposite!


When the head KNOWledge of Man reaches its inevitable finite limits,
spiritual BELIEF / FAITH can then lead Man to his Spiritual Creator.
"Knowledge" spiritually applied = WISDOM!


Is this travesty of the English language supposed to make some sort of sense!?
.
Hebrews 11...Spiritual Faith DEFINED...
 1 Now faith is:
(A.) being SURE of what we HOPE for
and
(B.) (being) CERTAIN of what we do not SEE.


No, Rgirley4, faith is the transparent admission that one's beliefs cannot stand on their own two feet.


While reason is the faculty of proportioning judgement to evidence, after first weighing the evidence, faith is belief even in the face of contrary evidence. In other words, faith is capable of believing anything...and it surely does.


And "EVIL" is simply the absence of the perfect "good" the TRI-UNE GOD...and BELIEF therein.


This is just where your hypothetical God completely misses the boat too. The book that purportedly claims to be inspired by him actually reveals him as being little different from some sort of oriental despot, only bigger and invisible.







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2 years ago  ::  Jul 27, 2012 - 9:29PM #257
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,952

Back to Basics...


Q: Is the TRI-UNE GOD of all spirit:


1. all powerful


2. all knowing


3. all spiritually "Good"?


A: Yes...all the above per numerous verses cited herein from the Bible...

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2012 - 3:24AM #258
Namchuck
Posts: 11,799

Jul 27, 2012 -- 9:29PM, Rgurley4 wrote:


Back to Basics...


Q: Is the TRI-UNE GOD of all spirit:


1. all powerful


2. all knowing


3. all spiritually "Good"?


A: Yes...all the above per numerous verses cited herein from the Bible...




And there are just as many verses of scripture that show that the biblical God is anything but all powerful, all knowing, and all good. Stand out among them, though, is the one's that identify him to be anything but good. Not that any of this really matters as the entity is fictional anyway.




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2 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2012 - 11:46AM #259
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,952

And there are just as many verses of scripture that show that the biblical God is anything but all powerful, all knowing, and all good.


You are hereby challenged to cite ALL of them.


I have cited MANY verses to the above contrary opinion....herein.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2012 - 8:39PM #260
Namchuck
Posts: 11,799

Jul 31, 2012 -- 11:46AM, Rgurley4 wrote:


And there are just as many verses of scripture that show that the biblical God is anything but all powerful, all knowing, and all good.


You are hereby challenged to cite ALL of them.


I have cited MANY verses to the above contrary opinion....herein.




I cited them previously and you simply ignored them.

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