Important Announcement

See here for an important message regarding the community which has become a read-only site as of October 31.

 
Pause Switch to Standard View The Bible in public schools
Show More
Loading...
Flag TheWallflower November 22, 2008 1:05 PM EST
Public schools in Texas and Alabama can teach the Bible as literature: http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/200 … -for-high/

A preview of the textbook, The Bible and Its Influence, can be found here: http://books.google.com/books?id=u58Dya … ce#PPA3,M1

This raises some interesting questions.  While the Bible is literature, and has had an enormous influence on Western culture, the line between teaching the Bible as literature and teaching it as religion is fuzzy. 

No one can talk about the Bible without also talking about religion and the differing religious views on biblical stories.  Bias is hard to avoid.  Is it possible to steer clear of bias in favor of Judaism, Catholicism, Evangelicalism, progressive Christianity, or secularism?

The effort for the Bible to be a public school course is headed up by the Bible Literacy Project: http://www.bibleliteracy.org/site/index2.htm

BLP was created by Chuck Stetson, who is associated with conservative religious and poltical causes, including the ministry of Chuck Colson.  Many board members are Christian conservatives. 

Is this "literacy" project actually an attempt to get religion back into public schools - religion with a conservative Christian bias?

I also noticed that the textbook appears to avoid discussing the historical development of the Bible, which could be very explosive.  For example, while fundamentalists insist that the Pentateuch (or Torah - Genesis-Deut) was written in its entirety by Moses as dictated by God, most biblical scholars thinks the first five books of the Bible are a compilation of several texts by many authors writing over an extended period of time.  The historical development of the Gospels is also controversial. 

But how can the Bible be studied as literature if we ignore its development as a text?
Flag MisterC November 22, 2008 2:12 PM EST
It's a movement by fundamenalist Christians who would, if they had the power, have America become a theocracy. There is such a law in my state as an elective high school course, and it was pushed strongly by the fundamentalist core. In reality, schools have been very slow to actually add the course, for several reasons. There are very few people qualified to teach this. The potential for lawsuits is fairly high, from lawsuits about the content of the course to lawsuits about equal access for all other religious groups to teach their holy scriptures.  Finally, I doubt there would be too much interest. That, after all, is what church is for, and parents who care, children who care about their religion have various tenets that they don't want compromised in a generic "Bible course." Thinking parents would rather control the religious content of their child's life. (The others seek out private religious academies anyway.)  I think your website mentioned 40 states and around 240 schools... That would average six a state! That sort of backs up what I am saying, unless in my scanning I got the number(s) incorrect.
Flag karemiss December 10, 2008 7:28 AM EST
I would suggest teaching , also as Literature, other sacred text as well ancient philosphy writinggs and myths, particularly Greek and Roman, since they contribuited so much to Western Culture, to keep the balance.
Flag flitzerbiest December 12, 2008 11:29 AM EST
I studied the Bible as literature in my Connecticut high school in 1983 or 1984.  I was, at the time, an evangelical Christian, and my teacher was an equally evangelical atheist.  It led to some great and memorable discussions.  I would love to cover some of the same ground with him today. 

My town was majority Roman Catholic, minority Jewish, and there really wasn't any fuss made about it.  It is undeniable that some first hand knowledge of the Bible is an essential aspect of American cultural literacy.
Flag MisterC December 12, 2008 11:40 AM EST
Neither two preceding posts are dealing with the odious purpose of this fundamentalist push. Classes in middle school and in high school address world religions and cultural contexts, such as the importance of Christianity in Western culture. That has absolutely nothing to do with the purpose of this "push."
Flag flitzerbiest December 12, 2008 1:25 PM EST
[QUOTE=MisterC;952034]Mister C said:

Neither two preceding posts are dealing with the odious purpose of this fundamentalist push.[/QUOTE]

Neither are they irrelevant.
Flag MisterC December 12, 2008 2:30 PM EST
[QUOTE=flitzerbiest;952248]Neither are they irrelevant.[/QUOTE]

Really? The two questions asked were these (with a very telling paragraph in the middle):

"Is this "literacy" project actually an attempt to get religion back into public schools - religion with a conservative Christian bias?

I also noticed that the textbook appears to avoid discussing the historical development of the Bible, which could be very explosive. For example, while fundamentalists insist that the Pentateuch (or Torah - Genesis-Deut) was written in its entirety by Moses as dictated by God, most biblical scholars thinks the first five books of the Bible are a compilation of several texts by many authors writing over an extended period of time. The historical development of the Gospels is also controversial.

But how can the Bible be studied as literature if we ignore its development as a text?"

In what way do those posts address the topic, as posed in the questions of the one who initiated it? The thread is about what has happened in several states, not teaching the bible "also as Literature, other sacred text as well ancient philosphy writinggs and myths," Neither is it about "first hand knowledge of the Bible" [being] "an essential aspect of American cultural literacy. " Those are addressed in public school curriculums.

Just for laughs, I went to the NYC Board of Education to look at the K-8 curriculum... Could have been a conservative bible belt state, but I chose a rather liberal one. Here is the web address:
http://schools.nycenet.edu/offices/teac … opeSeq.pdf
You will find, within this curriculum, especially in the middle grades, fifth and sixth, units that discuss religious and mythological aspects of world and American culture.

If you look at the key ideas for the elementary school (k-8) world history, the FIIRST deals with religions, myths, etc:
"1. The study of world history requires an understanding of world cultures and civilizations, including an analysis of important ideas, social and cultural values, beliefs, and
traditions. This study also examines the human condition and the connections and interactions of people across time and space and the ways different people view the same
event or issue from a variety of perspectives.
Student Performance Indicators:
2.1a: read historical narratives, myths, legends, biographies, and autobiographies to learn about how historical figures lived, their motivations, hopes, fears, strengths, and
weaknesses
2.1b: explore narrative accounts of important events from world history to learn about different accounts of the past to begin to understand how interpretations and
perspectives develop
2.1c: study about different world cultures and civilizations focusing on their accomplishments, contributions, values, beliefs, and traditions"

What must a NY state student know for commencement in this area.... Well, from the NY BOE site, we find
" define culture and civilization, explaining how they developed and changed over time. Investigate the various components of cultures and civilizations including social customs, norms, values, and traditions; political systems; economic systems; religions and spiritual beliefs; and socialization or educational practices"
http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/ciai/socst/so … soc21.html

Religion has never left school. It has remained an important part of a public school education. But, again, that isn't what the original questions concerned. The typical conservative mindset seems to believe that when the Supremes outlawed school sanctioned prayer in school, god decided to leave school. Religion has remained in the curriculums, even of progressive states. That's why I consider the posts irrelevant. They don't deal with the questions. They deal with what is already in the school. The questions dealt with the fundamentalist push to abrogate separation of church and state by having little more than "Sunday School" sessions in public school. Luckily, in states where this has passed, the local BOE's have been reluctant to initiate the courses!

MisterC
Flag flitzerbiest December 12, 2008 3:40 PM EST
MisterC,

Breathe, dude.  I actually agree with you about the motives of the BLP.  On the other hand, I think that removing study of the Bible from public school curricula is a bad idea.  BTW, my junior lit. class was also my first exposure to the Quran and the Bhagavad Gita. 

Eric
Flag MisterC December 12, 2008 5:42 PM EST
[QUOTE=flitzerbiest;952605]MisterC,

Breathe, dude.  I actually agree with you about the motives of the BLP.  On the other hand, I think that removing study of the Bible from public school curricula is a bad idea.  BTW, my junior lit. class was also my first exposure to the Quran and the Bhagavad Gita. 

Eric[/QUOTE]

Can you cite examples of curriculum guides in which  the  "study of the Bible" was, per se, a part of the curriculum of public schools? I can't, and my education began almost sixty years ago and continued through the education of kids. The Bible wasn't "taught." On the other hand, the importance of religion is essential to the study of World and US history, as well as the study of any culture. No one has removed it. This has remained, with various slants depending on which (generally Xian) bias the teacher has. (One teacher I remember considered the stories in Genesis to be factual. I thought this really naive, but ya know, ya get whatcha pay for! )

I can show examples of where snippets of the Bible were in readers, the nineteenth century McGuffie's readers for example, but they went not because of any proscription against religion but because in the twentieth century the methods and materials changed dramatically, to say nothing of the students.

I would challenge anyone who is concerned that Christianity and other religions, other mythologies aren't a part of their state's curriculum to go to their state's DOE website.... Google the initials of the state and "DOE" and look into the standards, the curriculum. I think they will be surprised. It's just one more non-issue the Christian Conservatives (who don't believe in the promise of public education anyway) whine about!
Flag MisterC December 12, 2008 5:42 PM EST
[QUOTE=flitzerbiest;952605]MisterC,

Breathe, dude.  I actually agree with you about the motives of the BLP.  On the other hand, I think that removing study of the Bible from public school curricula is a bad idea.  BTW, my junior lit. class was also my first exposure to the Quran and the Bhagavad Gita. 

Eric[/QUOTE]

Can you cite examples of curriculum guides in which  the  "study of the Bible" was, per se, a part of the curriculum of public schools? I can't, and my education began almost sixty years ago and continued through the education of kids. The Bible wasn't "taught." On the other hand, the importance of religion is essential to the study of World and US history, as well as the study of any culture. No one has removed it. This has remained, with various slants depending on which (generally Xian) bias the teacher has. (One teacher I remember considered the stories in Genesis to be factual. I thought this really naive, but ya know, ya get whatcha pay for! )

I can show examples of where snippets of the Bible were in readers, the nineteenth century McGuffie's readers for example, but they went not because of any proscription against religion but because in the twentieth century the methods and materials changed dramatically, to say nothing of the students.

I would challenge anyone who is concerned that Christianity and other religions, other mythologies aren't a part of their state's curriculum to go to their state's DOE website.... Google the initials of the state and "DOE" and look into the standards, the curriculum. I think they will be surprised. It's just one more non-issue the Christian Conservatives (who don't believe in the promise of public education anyway) whine about!
Flag flitzerbiest December 12, 2008 6:35 PM EST
[QUOTE=MisterC;952956]Can you cite examples of curriculum guides in which  the  "study of the Bible" was, per se, a part of the curriculum of public schools? I can't, and my education began almost sixty years ago and continued through the education of kids. The Bible wasn't "taught." On the other hand, the importance of religion is essential to the study of World and US history, as well as the study of any culture. No one has removed it. This has remained, with various slants depending on which (generally Xian) bias the teacher has. (One teacher I remember considered the stories in Genesis to be factual. I thought this really naive, but ya know, ya get whatcha pay for! )

I can show examples of where snippets of the Bible were in readers, the nineteenth century McGuffie's readers for example, but they went not because of any proscription against religion but because in the twentieth century the methods and materials changed dramatically, to say nothing of the students.

I would challenge anyone who is concerned that Christianity and other religions, other mythologies aren't a part of their state's curriculum to go to their state's DOE website.... Google the initials of the state and "DOE" and look into the standards, the curriculum. I think they will be surprised. It's just one more non-issue the Christian Conservatives (who don't believe in the promise of public education anyway) whine about![/QUOTE]

No, I can't bring you the public school curriculum from my high school, now 24 years and 1500 miles distant.  On the other hand, every 11th grade lit class studied the various sacred texts, and each of them studied the same passages and even took the same test.  Trust me--it was in the curriculum.

At the time, I felt ripped off because my teacher was an atheist.  I have since come to realize that this was a privilege--the first time I ever saw what I considered to be sacred material was presented to me in a secular light.
Flag flitzerbiest December 12, 2008 6:35 PM EST
[QUOTE=MisterC;952956]Can you cite examples of curriculum guides in which  the  "study of the Bible" was, per se, a part of the curriculum of public schools? I can't, and my education began almost sixty years ago and continued through the education of kids. The Bible wasn't "taught." On the other hand, the importance of religion is essential to the study of World and US history, as well as the study of any culture. No one has removed it. This has remained, with various slants depending on which (generally Xian) bias the teacher has. (One teacher I remember considered the stories in Genesis to be factual. I thought this really naive, but ya know, ya get whatcha pay for! )

I can show examples of where snippets of the Bible were in readers, the nineteenth century McGuffie's readers for example, but they went not because of any proscription against religion but because in the twentieth century the methods and materials changed dramatically, to say nothing of the students.

I would challenge anyone who is concerned that Christianity and other religions, other mythologies aren't a part of their state's curriculum to go to their state's DOE website.... Google the initials of the state and "DOE" and look into the standards, the curriculum. I think they will be surprised. It's just one more non-issue the Christian Conservatives (who don't believe in the promise of public education anyway) whine about![/QUOTE]

No, I can't bring you the public school curriculum from my high school, now 24 years and 1500 miles distant.  On the other hand, every 11th grade lit class studied the various sacred texts, and each of them studied the same passages and even took the same test.  Trust me--it was in the curriculum.

At the time, I felt ripped off because my teacher was an atheist.  I have since come to realize that this was a privilege--the first time I ever saw what I considered to be sacred material was presented to me in a secular light.
Flag MisterC December 12, 2008 8:12 PM EST
That is the only way it should be presented... in a secular light, as far as "the school" as a place for learning. Churches and homes are where religion, as personal belief and faith, should live, I think. I can not understand how a Conservative Christian, evangelical, fundamentalist would allow the religions indoctrination of son or daughter take place in a public school, where the teacher probably doesn't not have the identical beliefs (which is what these people demand) of the parent.

One problem is that presenting "The Bible" as the main text, and using it as "literature," is unworkable. Which bible? The supersessionist "Old" versus "New" Testament? If so, which one? Catholic or Protestant? Which translation and why? If one wants good literature from the days of King James, a better view would be Shakespeare, who reviolutionized the language... The KJV of the bible had a very limited vocabulary, comparably. On the other hand, can one really study a twentieth century version "as literature," when it contains so many fragments and variants in a language base, either Greek or Hebrew, which really hasn't much in common with English!?

Nah, the purpose of the "Sunday School" public school proponents haven't a halo to stand under on this issue!
Flag MisterC December 12, 2008 8:12 PM EST
That is the only way it should be presented... in a secular light, as far as "the school" as a place for learning. Churches and homes are where religion, as personal belief and faith, should live, I think. I can not understand how a Conservative Christian, evangelical, fundamentalist would allow the religions indoctrination of son or daughter take place in a public school, where the teacher probably doesn't not have the identical beliefs (which is what these people demand) of the parent.

One problem is that presenting "The Bible" as the main text, and using it as "literature," is unworkable. Which bible? The supersessionist "Old" versus "New" Testament? If so, which one? Catholic or Protestant? Which translation and why? If one wants good literature from the days of King James, a better view would be Shakespeare, who reviolutionized the language... The KJV of the bible had a very limited vocabulary, comparably. On the other hand, can one really study a twentieth century version "as literature," when it contains so many fragments and variants in a language base, either Greek or Hebrew, which really hasn't much in common with English!?

Nah, the purpose of the "Sunday School" public school proponents haven't a halo to stand under on this issue!
Flag andrewcyrus December 13, 2008 5:12 PM EST
Hi MrC,

I prefer my child be taught the truth.

Jam 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jam 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but [is] earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jam 3:16 For where envying and strife [is], there [is] confusion and every evil work.
Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Jam 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.


It's easy to indoctrinate the children to favor a war monger. This has been goijng on for centuries in the schools. Manipulated by tyrants and evil powers in high places.

When the truth is imparted to the student via the right spirit, then discernment between right ans wrong is manifested. These are the right uses of the spiritual tools.

Unfortunately to many families are willing to hand their children off to a partial and hypocritical public system that brainwashes the children.   I pay taxes for this, but i also pay for my child to have bible studies in a christian school setting. It's good wisdom to have.
Flag MisterC December 13, 2008 5:57 PM EST
Of course, public school as an option to most kids hasn't been around "for centuries," especially at more than an elementary level.   It's interesting that you believe something like a school has more influence on your children and the children of others than you or other parents. In my cultural world (white, middleclassed professional, married, grandkids), that just is not a problem. A caveat to that, however, is that generally when the kid turns sixteen, you become the dumbest person or parent  in the world. Not to worry. By the time the kid is twenty or twenty-one, you suddenly grow brain cells and become .once again a genius.  ;)  At least, that seems to be the norm. And, there is absolutely nothing wrong with one's child becoming influenced by new ideas, new people... It's healthy and normal. (I was reading some statistics about how children of evangelicals, for instance, tend to leave the church when they are out of their parents' houses, but I can't exactly remember where... Might have been at barna.org.) I'd rather grow with my kid than have my kid grow apart.

I'm interested in the "tyrants and evil powers" issue you have. Could you be more specific? I note that some people, as the caricature goes, see their former Catholic school nuns as "tyrants with rulers." Most modern public schools (at least the ones with which I am familiar) have advisory boards with a substantial number of parents making decisions. Parents are in the schools, in the classrooms regularly. Parents giving input on the very textbooks their children will use.

Christian school? In the 1960's and 1970's across the Deep South, thousands of those sprung up, just for parents to have an option other than a de-segregated school. No mixing of the races was the rationale. (There are some good Christian schools without that legacy, Catholic schools, Episcopal, and so forth, so the name "Christian" doesn't  necessarily relegate the school to the aforementioned "class.")

Brainwashing? Are you familiar with the steps involved in the term? If you are saying that the marginal four or five hours of instruction in a public school, in mathematics and Reading/English, with a bit more in science and social studies, a bit of PE and maybe a computer class brainwashes the children, you must not think much of the other nineteen or twenty hours, those the parent has control of the learning of the child. About all I can say is don't sell the kids short. If they are taught to do right and the parent is a good role model, they will do right.

But what does any of that have to do with biblical courses in public school? :(
Flag andrewcyrus December 13, 2008 11:42 PM EST
[QUOTE=MisterC;954645]Of course, public school as an option to most kids hasn't been around "for centuries," especially at more than an elementary level.   It's interesting that you believe something like a school has more influence on your children and the children of others than you or other parents. In my cultural world (white, middleclassed professional, married, grandkids), that just is not a problem. A caveat to that, however, is that generally when the kid turns sixteen, you become the dumbest person or parent  in the world. Not to worry. By the time the kid is twenty or twenty-one, you suddenly grow brain cells and become .once again a genius.  ;)  At least, that seems to be the norm. And, there is absolutely nothing wrong with one's child becoming influenced by new ideas, new people... It's healthy and normal. (I was reading some statistics about how children of evangelicals, for instance, tend to leave the church when they are out of their parents' houses, but I can't exactly remember where... Might have been at barna.org.) I'd rather grow with my kid than have my kid grow apart.

I'm interested in the "tyrants and evil powers" issue you have. Could you be more specific? I note that some people, as the caricature goes, see their former Catholic school nuns as "tyrants with rulers." Most modern public schools (at least the ones with which I am familiar) have advisory boards with a substantial number of parents making decisions. Parents are in the schools, in the classrooms regularly. Parents giving input on the very textbooks their children will use.

Christian school? In the 1960's and 1970's across the Deep South, thousands of those sprung up, just for parents to have an option other than a de-segregated school. No mixing of the races was the rationale. (There are some good Christian schools without that legacy, Catholic schools, Episcopal, and so forth, so the name "Christian" doesn't  necessarily relegate the school to the aforementioned "class.")

Brainwashing? Are you familiar with the steps involved in the term? If you are saying that the marginal four or five hours of instruction in a public school, in mathematics and Reading/English, with a bit more in science and social studies, a bit of PE and maybe a computer class brainwashes the children, you must not think much of the other nineteen or twenty hours, those the parent has control of the learning of the child. About all I can say is don't sell the kids short. If they are taught to do right and the parent is a good role model, they will do right.

But what does any of that have to do with biblical courses in public school? :([/QUOTE]


I'm interested in the "tyrants and evil powers" issue you have. Could you be more specific?
This video is about as specific as they come.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 4823827684

And, there is absolutely nothing wrong with one's child becoming influenced by new ideas, new people... It's healthy and normal

Watch the video we are all children the truth takes time.



"It's interesting that you believe something like a school has more influence on your children and the children of others than you or other parents"

I have to work 9-10 hours a day. I know that the teachers have more of my childs alert time than I do during the day. So yes I am not deluded into thinking that my influence is greater than the teachers that come into contact with my child.

"A caveat to that, however, is that generally when the kid turns sixteen, you become the dumbest person or parent  in the world."

I don't let my child/teen use those excuses for bad behaiviour despite what the "experts" may say.  If I have raised my child correctly then honoring the mother and father becomes a part of the good habits.


In regards to what passes in the public schools;
What is accepted as truth, such as the age of the earth some billions of years old, darwinism, and the lack of truth taught, the subversion of history, the dark ages and the inquistions, the mass slaughter of some 9 million native american indians... The nonexistent teachings of the fathers of the reformation. William Tyndale who translated the bible for the first time into english in 1527 etc. etc.

The children of America are programmed into the market of buying and borrrowing, fulfilling the needs and desires of the flesh over the desires of the spirit.

"In my cultural world (white, middleclassed professional, married, grandkids), that just is not a problem." Yes it is. The idea that the above can be acceptable to the culture of the white middle classed professional married with grandkids is like putting a sugary glaze on those rose colored glasses.


"And, there is absolutely nothing wrong with one's child becoming influenced by new ideas, new people... It's healthy and normal"


All though I think we may be diametrically formed in our inner programs I am certainly open to the spirit of truth.
Flag andrewcyrus December 13, 2008 11:52 PM EST
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 

Won't happen in AMERICA..


The US  did drop that fire on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

Happy searching.
Flag MisterC December 14, 2008 8:13 AM EST
Gotcha. The scientific explanations of the last hunred fifty or two hundred years have produced this reaction to modernism. I will have to say, after being around schools for many, many years, I don't have to watch an anecdotal and probably, no, certainly skewed video about schools!

If your fight is with Darwin, we see evolution on a micro level going on each year, as bacteria get more and more anti-biotic resistent. I reckon the researchers who are looking for new ways to fight these new mutations are working against the "hand of god," eh? That is probably the best example of one of the Darwinian tenets, The "strong survive" and produce bacteria that resist the environment that has been manipulated to kill them. What would the biblical version be, of taught in school? God struck the people with those diseases dead, I suppose. There would be no bacteria, since it hadn't been discovered when the anachronistic texts were written.

We have the same thing with the fossil record. Yep, science can certainly tell that the earth is billions of years old. As a matter of fact, just lately at "Sima del Elefante" in Spain, parts of a Homo erectus have been found dating roughtly 1 and a quarter years old. It shows that there were humans in Europe half a million years before once thought, arriving from Africa. 

Yes, science is one of those things that renders a literalist view of the Bible threatened at the very least.  I can see why some people would knock public school, because it scares them. On the other hand, most scientists and researchers, and probably 95% of the teachers in public education are Christians, so they have found a way to understand "faith" and "science" compatible. They certainly wouldn't want faith taught as science or science taught as faith!  That would lead to a rather confused child, when the child realized that natural phenomena can be explained without the use of a god.
Flag apologistrob December 16, 2008 10:47 PM EST
I am a devout Christian and I dont want the Bible taught in public schools. Teach my children to read and write and add and subtract, let me worry about molding the content of their characture. But on the other hand, in this day in age, parents are getting younger and giving up their parental duties. It seems as though the meaning of parenting now-a-days is feeding, clothing, and houses, the rest is up to the children to figure out. Parents today put more responsability on the teachers to "raise"  their children. It saddens me.
Flag MisterC December 17, 2008 11:33 AM EST
[QUOTE=apologistrob;961756]I am a devout Christian and I dont want the Bible taught in public schools. Teach my children to read and write and add and subtract, let me worry about molding the content of their characture. But on the other hand, in this day in age, parents are getting younger and giving up their parental duties. It seems as though the meaning of parenting now-a-days is feeding, clothing, and houses, the rest is up to the children to figure out. Parents today put more responsability on the teachers to "raise"  their children. It saddens me.[/QUOTE]

I am not by any sense of the word a Christian but I agree with every word you say. There is common ground.
Flag andrewcyrus January 10, 2009 4:24 PM EST
[QUOTE=heterodoxus;962502]Off topic. But, since you opened the door: are readers to deduce from that comment that you would've preferred possibly 1M+ allied casualties to the relatively scant thousands of deaths in two enemy cities within a nation that tenaciously believed surrender was, according to their religion, dishonorable and unthinkable?

If so, should we also deduce that you consider the Catholic Church as the "bad guy" of the Crusades? Or Christianity the "bad guy" leading up to 9/11? Perhaps we need more academic emphasis on history, not religions?!

What was it the man said would happen to those people who ignore history?[/QUOTE]


The bible was written so that we would know the things that are.
Flag MisterC January 11, 2009 8:47 AM EST
[QUOTE=andrewcyrus;1010073]The bible was written so that we would know the things that are.[/QUOTE]

No, it wasn't. "The Bible" wasn't written as a whole. Various narratives, poetry, parody, apocalypse, and so forth were written, by many diverse groups. Some of the books were chosen as "special," by people, so they made the canons. Very little has to do with "things that are" or "things that were." I suppose it could be seen as historical as the content of fairy tales such as found with the Brothers Grimm or Hans C. Andersen. It has no place in public school as anything other than a footnote, just as the Koran, Book of Mormon, Vedic, Analects, I Ching, Diamond Sutra and so forth. Students should be aware of religious texts and should be appreciative of the value of them in the cultural context they are used, but teaching that the Bible "was written so that we would know the things that are" is indoctrination, something that should be left up to parents... And you know, it seems that this fundamentalist approach doesn't really "take." When one accents the supernatural in the Bible (virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, creation stories, etc), as soon as the normal to above average IQ learns how the world really works, they are left realizing that what they have been told is a lie, so they quit believing it, especially in a world which is unable to look past "true" or "false."
Flag MisterC January 11, 2009 8:47 AM EST
[QUOTE=andrewcyrus;1010073]The bible was written so that we would know the things that are.[/QUOTE]

No, it wasn't. "The Bible" wasn't written as a whole. Various narratives, poetry, parody, apocalypse, and so forth were written, by many diverse groups. Some of the books were chosen as "special," by people, so they made the canons. Very little has to do with "things that are" or "things that were." I suppose it could be seen as historical as the content of fairy tales such as found with the Brothers Grimm or Hans C. Andersen. It has no place in public school as anything other than a footnote, just as the Koran, Book of Mormon, Vedic, Analects, I Ching, Diamond Sutra and so forth. Students should be aware of religious texts and should be appreciative of the value of them in the cultural context they are used, but teaching that the Bible "was written so that we would know the things that are" is indoctrination, something that should be left up to parents... And you know, it seems that this fundamentalist approach doesn't really "take." When one accents the supernatural in the Bible (virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, creation stories, etc), as soon as the normal to above average IQ learns how the world really works, they are left realizing that what they have been told is a lie, so they quit believing it, especially in a world which is unable to look past "true" or "false."
Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook