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Switch to Forum Live View Biblical God Inflicts Evil: Questions Raised
6 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2008 - 4:41PM #11
he-man
Posts: 3,869
[QUOTE=Clootie;637691]Popular religion’s God is always nice. The Bible’s God often inflicts evil. Here are a few summary passages (some condensed):

“I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:5-7).

“See now that I, even I, am he; there is no god beside me. I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and no one can deliver from my hand” (Deuteronomy 32:39).

“The Lord kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up. The Lord makes poor and makes rich; he brings low, he also exalts” (1 Samuel 2:6-7).

“Does disaster [lit evil] befall a city, unless the Lord has done it?” (Amos 3:6).

“I struck you with blight and mildew; I laid waste your gardens and your vineyards. I sent among you a pestilence. I killed your young men with the sword” (Amos 4:9-10).

Such passages raise two questions for me:  (1) What does it mean to say that God does things that were actually done by people or nature?  (2) How can this God be called a good God? Does anyone else have such questions? If so, how do you answer them?

The book “Evil, Anger, and God: a Biblical Pastoral Study” talks about such questions. Any opinions on the book?[/QUOTE]

2Th 1:6 If, indeed, a just thing with God, to recompense, affliction, to give in return affliction, to those that afflict you,
7 And, to you those being afflicted, a loosening, with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with messengers of his power,
8 In a firey flame; to give an avenging to those not knowing God, and to those not being obedient to the glad tidings of our Lord Jesus,
9 Who shall pay a usage of age lasting death from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his strength;

Ro 9:21  Or hath not the potter a right over the clay––out of the same lump, to make some, indeed, into a vessel for honour, and some for dishonour?
1Ch 25:5  All these were the sons of Heman the king’s seer (chozeh= to see) in the words of God, to lift up the horn.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 7:25AM #12
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,239
[SIZE=3]I think it helps to become familiar with Bible idioms, some of these passages are purely symbolic.

[/SIZE]Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus….I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. …I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:5-7).

The whole point of this chapter is to establish Yahweh’s authority over Cyrus and the earth. Cyrus is an idol worshiper who worships one of the other host of heaven.

Yahweh is telling him he is Lord of Host he alone was anointed God of gods.


“I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.”

Even tho he is specifically the God of Israel Cyrus had better obey him or else.

Light and darkness represent knowledge/wisdom and the lack there of.

“But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day. The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.” Prov 4

In Amos 8 he chastises them because they “swallow up the needy” and He says

“that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day…I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread …. but of hearing the words of the Lord they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

Yes eclipses and different acts of nature can cause the earth to darken but this is used as a teaching tool, disobedience causes a gap in the knowledge of the Lord and the consequence is something evil. Israel saw their past captures as the evil consequence of their failure to obey God.

When they obeyed God there was peace in the land, when they disobeyed God then he caused Babylon to make life miserable.
Wise men still seek him.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 7:30AM #13
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,239
(2) How can this God be called a good God?

Contrary to what many have been taught God does not always rain down love unconditional he demands obedience.

I think understanding God’s purpose helps explain a lot.

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

He gave man dominion, or at least a little taste of it and then set up a situation were we learn good from evil; “man is become as one of us, to know good and evil

And then he said “cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life”

In Mal 3 he writes;
“But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap: And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.”

Later Paul wrote;
"My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord…..Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby." Heb 12

A father who does not chasten is not a good father.
Wise men still seek him.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 06, 2008 - 5:56PM #14
subwaystance
Posts: 177
A father who sets a child up to fail is not a good father.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 06, 2008 - 5:58PM #15
subwaystance
Posts: 177
[QUOTE=withwonderingawe;642899][COLOR=black]

[SIZE=4]A father who does not chasten is not a good father.
[/QUOTE]



A father who sets his children up to fail and punishes their offspring for such a failing for thousands of years is not a good father.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 13, 2008 - 5:54PM #16
skaterjoe
Posts: 1
Read Psalms 106
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2008 - 8:45AM #17
he-man
Posts: 3,869
[QUOTE=skaterjoe;689052]Read Psalms 106[/QUOTE]

Isa 57:20  But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21  There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

Ps 106:8  Nevertheless he saved them for his name’s sake, that he might make his mighty power to be known. 24  Yea, they despised the pleasant land, they believed not his word: 34 They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them:
35  But were mingled among the nations, and learned their works. Sound familar? Learn the sport of football, etc. defeat your opponent at any cost. It is the winning that counts, not the fact that you refuse to play the game!  Bingo anyone? Black Jack?

107:28  Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he bringeth them out of their distresses.
29  He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still.
43  Whoso is wise, and will observe these things, even they shall understand the lovingkindness of the LORD.

What is kindness, do you hurt your child? do you cheat the poor with high interest rates? do you take away the homes of widows that can not afford the HIGH interest ? How rich is RICH?
1Ch 25:5  All these were the sons of Heman the king’s seer (chozeh= to see) in the words of God, to lift up the horn.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2008 - 1:03PM #18
natureboy_the0
Posts: 1,740

Clootie wrote:

Popular religion’s God is always nice. The Bible’s God often inflicts evil. Here are a few summary passages (some condensed):

“I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:5-7).

“See now that I, even I, am he; there is no god beside me. I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and no one can deliver from my hand” (Deuteronomy 32:39).

“The Lord kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up. The Lord makes poor and makes rich; he brings low, he also exalts” (1 Samuel 2:6-7).

“Does disaster [lit evil] befall a city, unless the Lord has done it?” (Amos 3:6).

“I struck you with blight and mildew; I laid waste your gardens and your vineyards. I sent among you a pestilence. I killed your young men with the sword” (Amos 4:9-10).

Such passages raise two questions for me: (1) What does it mean to say that God does things that were actually done by people or nature? (2) How can this God be called a good God? Does anyone else have such questions? If so, how do you answer them?

The book “Evil, Anger, and God: a Biblical Pastoral Study” talks about such questions. Any opinions on the book?

I have never read that [COLOR=blue]book[/COLOR] but I see how Isaiah 7:[COLOR=darkorange]14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=darkorange][B]15 Butter [COLOR=sienna][the laws of civilization] and honey [the laws of nature] shall he eat [live by], that he may know to refuse the evil [civilization], and choose the good [nature]. [/COLOR]
[/B]
[B]16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest [COLOR=sienna][death] shall be forsaken of both her kings [god and devil]. [/COLOR][/B]
[B]17 The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria. [/B]
[B]18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall hiss for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria. [COLOR=sienna][The Tribulation.][/COLOR][/B]
[B]19 And they shall come, and shall rest all of them in the desolate valleys, and in the holes of the rocks, and upon all thorns, and upon all bushes. [/B]
[B]20 In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard. [/B]
[B]21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a man shall nourish a young cow, and two sheep; [/B]
[B]22 And it shall come to pass, for the abundance of milk that they shall give he shall eat butter: for butter and honey shall every one eat that is left in the land [the remnant, the church, Israel and the other names for the survivors]. indicates the very concept of god has to be forsaken for those who will be the remnant, church and survivors of the end of the world.[/B]

[B]Having the previous interpretation for that passage we are inspired to believe god and devil are man's creations, god the maker of everything man appreciate and devil over everything man disapprove of.[/B][/COLOR]

Are you questioning your beliefs, ask I AM THAT I AM to clarify them!
Elijah Alfred "NatureBoy" Alexander, Jr. presenting SEEDS OF LIFE
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2008 - 11:07PM #19
he-man
Posts: 3,869
[QUOTE=Clootie;637691]Popular religion’s God is always nice. The Bible’s God often inflicts evil. Here are a few summary passages (some condensed):

“I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:5-7).

“See now that I, even I, am he; there is no god beside me. I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and no one can deliver from my hand” (Deuteronomy 32:39).

“The Lord kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up. The Lord makes poor and makes rich; he brings low, he also exalts” (1 Samuel 2:6-7).

“Does disaster [lit evil] befall a city, unless the Lord has done it?” (Amos 3:6).

“I struck you with blight and mildew; I laid waste your gardens and your vineyards. I sent among you a pestilence. I killed your young men with the sword” (Amos 4:9-10).

Such passages raise two questions for me:  (1) What does it mean to say that God does things that were actually done by people or nature?  (2) How can this God be called a good God? Does anyone else have such questions? If so, how do you answer them?

The book “Evil, Anger, and God: a Biblical Pastoral Study” talks about such questions. Any opinions on the book?[/QUOTE] First of all you have to understand the purpose of God, and what He has promised He will not allow man to annul.

Since God created everything, He also controls everything to bring about His purpose.

Ps 89:9  Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.
Ps 93:4  The LORD on high is mightier than the noise of many waters, yea, than the mighty waves of the sea.
Ps 107:25  For he commandeth, and raiseth the stormy wind, which lifteth up the waves thereof.

That, of course would include Katrina. Have you seen the filth of New Orleans which is a mockery of God?
If there were any good people there when the storm hit, they were protected.

Mr 4:37-41 And there arose a great SQUALL of wind, and the waves WERE CAST UPON the ship, so as ALREADY to begin to fill up THE SHIP.
And he was in the POOP, sleeping on a pillow for the head: and they awoke him, and they said to him, O teacher, do you not care that we are about TO FALL?
And having been INCITED, he REPRIMANDED the wind, and said to the sea, BE STILL,BE GAGGED. And the wind SUBSIDED, and a great calm HAPPENED.
And he said unto them, Why do you fear? Are you NOT YET to have faith?
And they REVERED HIM HIGHLY WITH GREAT AWE, and said to ONE another, WHO THEN is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?

His purpose?
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the hidden purpose of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

11 by whom also we have possession of, an inheritance, being destined,(set apart for a particular purpose) according to a purpose which he operates all things after the legislature of His will :

You must also be aware that he uses the Law of the Land to enforce His Laws.

Lu 12:58  When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.

So, if God desires to protect His people and you are opposing His plan to give to Israel, the Kingdom He has promised, then I would not want to be in your shoes.

Ac 5:39  But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
1Ch 25:5  All these were the sons of Heman the king’s seer (chozeh= to see) in the words of God, to lift up the horn.
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