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Switch to Forum Live View When Was Jesus Born?
4 years ago  ::  Dec 15, 2010 - 8:14PM #81
teilhard
Posts: 50,004

BACK to The TOPIC of The THREAD --


Almost certainly The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth was Born sometime in the very Early Years of The First-Century C.E. ..

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4 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2010 - 6:13AM #82
JRT
Posts: 339

Dec 15, 2010 -- 8:14PM, teilhard wrote:


BACK to The TOPIC of The THREAD --


Almost certainly The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth was Born sometime in the very Early Years of The First-Century C.E. ..




Don't you mean LATE years?

the floggings will continue until morale improves
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2010 - 7:11AM #83
Dennis
Posts: 1,433

Dec 15, 2010 -- 8:14PM, teilhard wrote:


BACK to The TOPIC of The THREAD --


Almost certainly The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth was Born sometime in the very Early Years of The First-Century C.E. ..





Not if Matthew was correct. It would have been around 6 bce. He would have been around forty at his death, in the Matthean scenario. (This actually falls in line with John 8:57... "The Judeans said to him, 'You aren't even fifty years old and you've seen Abraham!'" So the tradition of John, whether his creation, whether he's using the Matthean tradition or whether he had another, has Jesus at an older age than the Lukan tradition... or, of course, he would have used thirty or forty, rather than fifty.)


And, if Luke was correct in his census story, it would put Jesus in, at the oldest, around thirty. 


We get practically all of the Palestinian chronology from Josephus. If his chronology in book 18 of Antiquities was correct, the death of Jesus preceded that of John the Immerser. That, according to the Lukan birth story, would have put Jesus in his twenties at his death. 


Those are four reasons, looking at the four sources at face value, we can't say "almost certainly" about the "birth and life" of Jesus, inasmuch as dating it.   


 

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4 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2010 - 2:35PM #84
teilhard
Posts: 50,004

Nope ... Nice try ... Interesting, though ...


Dec 16, 2010 -- 6:13AM, JRT wrote:


Dec 15, 2010 -- 8:14PM, teilhard wrote:


BACK to The TOPIC of The THREAD --


Almost certainly The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth was Born sometime in the very Early Years of The First-Century C.E. ..




Don't you mean LATE years?





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4 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2010 - 2:38PM #85
teilhard
Posts: 50,004

Yes, yes, yes ... We've been through this already ...


The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth (reportedly) was around thirty years of age when he began His Public Ministry ... He was (reportedly) Crucified on Order of The Roman Imperial Governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, whose Term there was 26 - 36 C.E. ...


So ...


Dec 16, 2010 -- 7:11AM, Dennis wrote:


Dec 15, 2010 -- 8:14PM, teilhard wrote:


BACK to The TOPIC of The THREAD --


Almost certainly The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth was Born sometime in the very Early Years of The First-Century C.E. ..





Not if Matthew was correct. It would have been around 6 bce. He would have been around forty at his death, in the Matthean scenario. (This actually falls in line with John 8:57... "The Judeans said to him, 'You aren't even fifty years old and you've seen Abraham!'" So the tradition of John, whether his creation, whether he's using the Matthean tradition or whether he had another, has Jesus at an older age than the Lukan tradition... or, of course, he would have used thirty or forty, rather than fifty.)


And, if Luke was correct in his census story, it would put Jesus in, at the oldest, around thirty. 


We get practically all of the Palestinian chronology from Josephus. If his chronology in book 18 of Antiquities was correct, the death of Jesus preceded that of John the Immerser. That, according to the Lukan birth story, would have put Jesus in his twenties at his death. 


Those are four reasons, looking at the four sources at face value, we can't say "almost certainly" about the "birth and life" of Jesus, inasmuch as dating it.   


 





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4 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2010 - 4:03PM #86
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,924

Dec 16, 2010 -- 2:38PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes, yes, yes ... We've been through this already ...


The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth (reportedly) was around thirty years of age when he began His Public Ministry ... He was (reportedly) Crucified on Order of The Roman Imperial Governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, whose Term there was 26 - 36 C.E. ...


So ...




Geez Teil,


You accept every word of the party line, hook line and sinker, without any reservation whatsoever. I hate to sound demeaning to a denomination, but the RCC just loves people who think this way. Truth is, there are some brilliant RC  Scholars among the Fellows of the Jesus Seminar who would find your level of scholarship embarrassing.


 




Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2010 - 4:09PM #87
teilhard
Posts: 50,004

You're claiming that Pontius Pilate WASN'T The Imperial Roman Governor of Judea during 26-36 C.E. ... ??? On what Basis do you make such a Claim ... ???


Dec 16, 2010 -- 4:03PM, RJMcElwain wrote:


Dec 16, 2010 -- 2:38PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes, yes, yes ... We've been through this already ...


The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth (reportedly) was around thirty years of age when he began His Public Ministry ... He was (reportedly) Crucified on Order of The Roman Imperial Governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, whose Term there was 26 - 36 C.E. ...


So ...




Geez Teil,


You accept every word of the party line, hook line and sinker, without any reservation whatsoever. I hate to sound demeaning to a denomination, but the RCC just loves people who think this way. Truth is, there are some brilliant RC  Scholars among the Fellows of the Jesus Seminar who would find your level of scholarship embarrassing.


 








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4 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2010 - 4:46PM #88
Dennis
Posts: 1,433

"Around thirty years old." Singley attested, second century in Luke... attached to the phony genealogy... Not very reliable.


Pontius Pilate? The year 26 was given by Josephus... On the other hand, he places a story of Mundus, Paulina, et al, at the same time as the crucifixion of Jesus. This caused the expulsion of Jews from Rome, which Tacitus, the Roman historian, places at 19 ce... So, it is extremely possible Pilate began before 19, say around 17 ce. This would place the crucifixion, of course, at 19 ce.


Yep, when one tries to make "modern history" out of historie, or narrative/story, one falls into a "well" of gullibility! 


Dec 16, 2010 -- 4:09PM, teilhard wrote:


You're claiming that Pontius Pilate WASN'T The Imperial Roman Governor of Judea during 26-36 C.E. ... ??? On what Basis do you make such a Claim ... ???


Dec 16, 2010 -- 4:03PM, RJMcElwain wrote:


Dec 16, 2010 -- 2:38PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes, yes, yes ... We've been through this already ...


The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth (reportedly) was around thirty years of age when he began His Public Ministry ... He was (reportedly) Crucified on Order of The Roman Imperial Governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, whose Term there was 26 - 36 C.E. ...


So ...




Geez Teil,


You accept every word of the party line, hook line and sinker, without any reservation whatsoever. I hate to sound demeaning to a denomination, but the RCC just loves people who think this way. Truth is, there are some brilliant RC  Scholars among the Fellows of the Jesus Seminar who would find your level of scholarship embarrassing.


 












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4 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2010 - 4:55PM #89
teilhard
Posts: 50,004

LOTS of Dates of Events in The Early First Century C.E. are a BIT ***fuzzy***, eh ... ???


Apparently you AGREE that you don't care to distinguish "Geschichte" and "Historie" ...


Dec 16, 2010 -- 4:46PM, Dennis wrote:


"Around thirty years old." Singley attested, second century in Luke... attached to the phony genealogy... Not very reliable.


Pontius Pilate? The year 26 was given by Josephus... On the other hand, he places a story of Mundus, Paulina, et al, at the same time as the crucifixion of Jesus. This caused the expulsion of Jews from Rome, which Tacitus, the Roman historian, places at 19 ce... So, it is extremely possible Pilate began before 19, say around 17 ce. This would place the crucifixion, of course, at 19 ce.


Yep, when one tries to make "modern history" out of historie, or narrative/story, one falls into a "well" of gullibility! 


Dec 16, 2010 -- 4:09PM, teilhard wrote:


You're claiming that Pontius Pilate WASN'T The Imperial Roman Governor of Judea during 26-36 C.E. ... ??? On what Basis do you make such a Claim ... ???


Dec 16, 2010 -- 4:03PM, RJMcElwain wrote:


Dec 16, 2010 -- 2:38PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes, yes, yes ... We've been through this already ...


The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth (reportedly) was around thirty years of age when he began His Public Ministry ... He was (reportedly) Crucified on Order of The Roman Imperial Governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, whose Term there was 26 - 36 C.E. ...


So ...




Geez Teil,


You accept every word of the party line, hook line and sinker, without any reservation whatsoever. I hate to sound demeaning to a denomination, but the RCC just loves people who think this way. Truth is, there are some brilliant RC  Scholars among the Fellows of the Jesus Seminar who would find your level of scholarship embarrassing.


 
















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4 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2010 - 5:51PM #90
Dennis
Posts: 1,433

You haven't discussed the terms... If you are so enamored, it is up to you. I've made my thoughts known about the fictive Christian gospels/Acts.You merely throw a few terms out in a futile attempt to sound intelligent...


Dec 16, 2010 -- 4:55PM, teilhard wrote:


LOTS of Dates of Events in The Early First Century C.E. are a BIT ***fuzzy***, eh ... ???


Apparently you AGREE that you don't care to distinguish "Geschichte" and "Historie" ...


Dec 16, 2010 -- 4:46PM, Dennis wrote:


"Around thirty years old." Singley attested, second century in Luke... attached to the phony genealogy... Not very reliable.


Pontius Pilate? The year 26 was given by Josephus... On the other hand, he places a story of Mundus, Paulina, et al, at the same time as the crucifixion of Jesus. This caused the expulsion of Jews from Rome, which Tacitus, the Roman historian, places at 19 ce... So, it is extremely possible Pilate began before 19, say around 17 ce. This would place the crucifixion, of course, at 19 ce.


Yep, when one tries to make "modern history" out of historie, or narrative/story, one falls into a "well" of gullibility! 


Dec 16, 2010 -- 4:09PM, teilhard wrote:


You're claiming that Pontius Pilate WASN'T The Imperial Roman Governor of Judea during 26-36 C.E. ... ??? On what Basis do you make such a Claim ... ???


Dec 16, 2010 -- 4:03PM, RJMcElwain wrote:


Dec 16, 2010 -- 2:38PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes, yes, yes ... We've been through this already ...


The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth (reportedly) was around thirty years of age when he began His Public Ministry ... He was (reportedly) Crucified on Order of The Roman Imperial Governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, whose Term there was 26 - 36 C.E. ...


So ...




Geez Teil,


You accept every word of the party line, hook line and sinker, without any reservation whatsoever. I hate to sound demeaning to a denomination, but the RCC just loves people who think this way. Truth is, there are some brilliant RC  Scholars among the Fellows of the Jesus Seminar who would find your level of scholarship embarrassing.


 




















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