Switch to Forum Live View The Old testament and Revelations - Part I
|6 years ago :: Nov 12, 2007 - 11:09AM #1|
Following Biblical precedent will provide both insight into the events contained in Revelations, and a functional understanding of the prophetic process behind these same events.
The events contained within Revelations are mostly based on the old testament;
1. Rolls are consumed by prophets(Ez 3)
2. Rolls are sealed with wax, and the armed messenger is sent under pain of death to deliver his message with its seal intact, the seal being unique to the official that sends it.
3. The prophetic clock starts once the roll is handed over to the lamb, the lamb then hands each opened roll to an angel that then delivers it to those that will execute each phase. The rolls are both stacked and concentric, making it possible to see the number of rolls without opening them.
5. Following the originating text in Zechariah, the horses are sent by God, each of which initiate different facets of the end-times scenario.
6. There is one rider with balances, the days wage is mentioned as being enough to buy two pounds. A lot of commentary is devoted to the assumed economic collapse that this represents. Even at minimum wage you can buy plenty of wheat flour... the situation described is not that of collapse, but prosperity as in the warehouses built by Pharaoh and the economic recovery that bankrolled Nazi Germany's rearming before the Holocaust.
7. The concept of those resting in hope come from the words of Jesus where he states that God is the god of the living, a concept that had already been well-established by this time. the old testament also relates the concept where it states "in the roll written about me"(Heb 10) a concept the re-defines the concept behind what God sees when he looks at us, our deeds and prayers are present and we are look at as innocent without blame and as martyrs as per the death of Zechariah.
They are told to wait until the number of martyrs are complete, a concept alluded to before the fall of Sodom and Gomorrah.
8. The resulting imagery that follows the end of this same chapter comes straight from IS 2.
|6 years ago :: Nov 12, 2007 - 1:03PM #2|
I. A quick look at the fall of Jerusalem will reveal that the following events are mentioned as precedent for the last days;
1. Manassah,as in the case of the sons of Eli, defiles the sanctuary. God then states no less than three times that he would not forgive the sin of Manassah and would destroy the sanctuary, two cases where it is a hebrew that defiles the sanctuary with an abomination that brings forth desolation by God.
You can see this in the verse that describes those that did not contaminate themselves with women(Rev 14), the sons of Eli slept with the women who kept watch at the sanctuary, the bible then refers five times to the destruction of the sanctuary of Shiloh.
2. Within a few short years Josiah would create the conditions that result in the last revival, an event witnessed by a small levite child from Anatoth named Jeremiah.
3. Jeremiah would also witness the very same generation falling away and would be about 35 years old when Jerusalem fell. This is what is meant by the words "this generation shall not pass".
4. God then marks those to be spared, those to be kept. The first exile is spared, the people rebel and are destroyed leaving a few kept survivors within the city, the same that will see the figure of a man descending upon the Mount of Olives.
II. A quick look at NU 10 will reveal a new scenario as it relates to the church.
Other than to summon leaders, all trumpet calls are made by two trumpets. Yet, how can you tell the difference between one and two trumpets?
The answer is that each trumpet blast is confirmed by a second, as in prophecy, a message is followed by a statement that confirms it.
You will notice that the textual reference that we cite only refers to a last trumpet,...not the last of seven.
Nu 10 leaves us with of just two and the possiblity of the church not being present within the chronological events refered to in Revelations.
It also permits us to interpret both MT 24-25 and Revelations in a literal manner, and as a workable chronology.
III. The multitudes;
1. the first is described as those marked with God's seal on their foreheads.
They are later described in Rev 14 as being at Mt Zion/Hermon as per DT 3&4.
2. the second is described as coming from the nations and as having come having coming out of tribulation. The setting is non-chronological, it is a vision set in heaven, they are martyrs who refuse to receive the mark(s) - God's marking being singular, man's mark as being as per the law plural, - having the word on the forehead and hand, in both thought and action, something that denotes authority over the individual.
IV. The seventh seal.
Wheras the previous seals help prepare the scenario, this last phase of the revelation will now translate into action, the angels now have trumpets.
1. The relation between the censer and prayer is revealed in the times that Moses intercedes for the people and the one situation where he tells Aaron to take incense within a censer and make atonement, not for Koreh and his followers, but for the people that followed(NU 16).
Apart from those uses within Nu10 that refer to;
1. summoning the leaders.
2. assembling the people.
3. breaking camp.
4. alarm of iminent attack.
5. marking observances such as the lunar feasts and other celebrations.
There are the following;
Ehud mobilizing troops(Judges 3).
Joab calling off the pursuit after the encounter at the pool of Gibeon(2Sam 2).
In other words, the trumpet calls are tactical, each following call is the start of an onslaught.
The first four trumpets are taken straight from the old testament;
1. hail and fire(Ez 9).
2. having the third part of the sea turning into blood is an extension of the nile during the exodus.
3. the third trumpet refers to one of jacob's sons having found mandrake, a bitter root along the way. The word would later refer to a root of bitterness, something you find along the way and choose to keep, the bitter taste denoting potentially poisonous foods, as in 2 kings where Elisha sprinkles wheat flour over the poisoned stew, once again, something found along the way...
VI. The fourth trumpet, the day of the Lord defined.
This is where the common elements revealed in Isaiah, Ezekiel, Joel, and Zechariah are used to collectively define the day of the Lord;
1. The nations invade.
2. The nations assemble at Armageddon.
3. The nations ascend to Jerusalem and take it.
4. The armies then die upon the mountains of Israel.
5. The ample description of darkness is repeated.
VII. Three trumpets, three woes.
1. the fifth trumpet comes straight from Joel.
2. 5 months comes straight from Genesis as the time of judgement that ended once the ark struck land.
3. the sixth trumpet shows an example of the excercise of authority. The angels are let loose, John sees in a vision what they will do later, being that they don't actually mobilize until chapter 16.
4. 200 million;
The US mobilized about 16 million servicemen during WWII and later had a budget that represented close to 10% of the federal budget to fund the cold war, the russians, spending a lot more...
The reality of modern war is that if your lucky you might get 10% of your population mobilized, you can fund it in the short term while the prospect of taking of spoils is an incentive as in the case of Hitler, Tojo, and the kings of Judah and Edom who were invited by the king of Israel, which is why they would later be angry;
- a live king or prince would be the source of tribute.
- a dead monarch would only leave ruins.
You now know why Gog invades Israel.
200 million doesn't come close to 10% of the world's population at this time. Reality will also show that only a cooperative effort by other nations will make it happen. The threat is not the technology, the threat is an ideology that translates into treaties, arms and logistics that will make it happen.
The seventh trum...- more to follow, I'm too exhausted.
|6 years ago :: Nov 12, 2007 - 5:53PM #3|
I could not get past the first sentence. The book is called Revelation, it is not plural.
|6 years ago :: Nov 20, 2007 - 4:11PM #4|
The book of Revelation is not just about one event so it covers much territory.
Without the Old Testament and the book of Daniel to get a good bearing on what revelation is saying we end up with all the weird fancy tales that some preachers come up with.
|6 years ago :: Nov 27, 2007 - 10:34PM #5|
The Book of Revelation is seeing the day of the Cross made as 7 time periods, shown as 3 pictures. God doubles twice to ESTABLISH His words as seen in Genesis 41:32 with Pharaoh’s dream.
Only the day of the Cross will fit Isaiah 30:26 when God heals:
Isaiah 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.
God takes the day of the Cross which is from Sunset when the Last Supper began, Till Sunset when Jesus had just been placed in the Sepulchre.
God first shows the day as 4 6-hour periods, Seen as 4 beasts with 6-wings in Revelation.
Revelation 4:7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
Sunset to Midnight as a lion, Jesus showing who He is, what He will do.
Midnight to sunrise, with the face of a Calf, Seen as the face of a Ox in Ezekiel 1:10. As Jesus is lead to Slaughter. God multiplies Visions and uses Similitudes (Hosea 12:10) They are both looking at the day of the Cross, But through different eyes.
Ezekiel 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
Sunrise to noon, As the Face of a Man, as Jesus is judged.
Noon to sunset as Jesus dies on the Cross, as a flying Eagle as Jesus commends His spirit to God.
The day as 4 6-hour periods, 1=Old Heaven, 2=Old Earth, Heaven and earth flee from His Face seen as the Face of a Man on the third beast with 6-wings. New Earth is Sunrise to noon, New Heaven is noon to Sunset.
Jesus takes all sin, He is all things which offend, There are 144 with Judas, seen as a wall in Revelation 21:17. They added the Cubit or reached angel status, They are the angels given Charge over Jesus, In their hands they bear Him up. They are multiplied by 1,000 in Deuteronomy 1:11 or the 144,000 in Revelation chapter 14. They are Virgins, they are seen in Jeremiah as men travailing with Child (Through Jeremiah’s eyes).
The Body of Christ born the day of the Cross seen in Psalms 2:6/7, Given the heathen in 2:8. Jesus takes sins away, Now God can dwell with mankind, or Immanuel or “GOD with us.”
First seal is the White Horse, As Jesus says who He is, what He will do. Now Jesus has to go and do it, so the Rider on the White Horse goes forth conquering and to conquer as Jesus has to battle sin, death, and hell. White horse coming in clouds is Jesus taking sins during that time, Sin seen as clouds in Isaiah 44:22.
Second seal is the Red Horse as Jesus is lead to slaughter. The Second is the Sacrifice, So the law or white horse with Jesus saying what He must do will kill the Sacrifice or red Horse, and the Sacrifice will kill the law in fulfilling it. Part of the law was “And the law is no more.”
Adding the Red Horse, to the Face of a Calf, is forming the Red Heifer, the day as 3 pictures or for a day, a week, a month and a year. God likened those above to the Head, Those beneath to the Tail, Jesus is the Head of the first 6-hours, Judas and the 144 with Him the Head of the Second 6-hours, So the Calf or Red Heifer is BEHEADED, God’s word like as a fire in Jeremiah 23:29 makes for the Ashes of the Red Heifer needed to cleans the House.
The House is Built the day of the Cross as 7 time periods, the name of the House found in the book of Job is the “Wilderness” Where Jesus was taken after the Baptism and shown the Revelations, then given 42 Months to continue and go back and show the Disciples (Servants) things which must shortly come to pass.
Proverbs 9:1 Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
2-Samuel 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
The Third seal is Sunrise to noon. Black Horse with Balances. The Time Jesus was Judged. Third angel sounds and the Star Wormwood falls to the Earth, Jesus made all things cursed, He has to be as the Earth cursed also, Earth destroyed by fire is God’s word like as a fire as Jesus dies. Stars are for signs, it is a sign of the Judgment falling on Christ from sunrise to noon.
Amos 5:7 Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth,
The Fourth seal is the Pale Horse. Death followed by hell as Jesus died and descended into hell.
Fourth angel sounds as a third of the Sun, and a third of the Moon is smitten, or one of the three pictures is completed, The two great lights made on the fourth day in Genesis is from Noon to Sunrise. The Creation story is also looking at the day of the Cross, the BEGINNING of the New World, Old World had no recorded beginning, New World has no end.
Sun seen as the Throne in Psalms 89:36 is darkened as Jesus died and they think that is the end. Moon seen as the establishment of the Throne in Psalms 89:37 is turned to blood as the Blood of Jesus establishes the throne.
The Nation of Israel is the Woman in Revelation Chapter 12, the Moon is under her feet, as She has to offer the Sacrifice under the law.
First angel sounds, “Fire, Hail, Mingled with Blood.” God’s word like as a fire in Jeremiah 23:29 is poured out by Jesus at the Last supper between Sunset and Midnight, Hail is Judas as He greets Jesus and kisses Him “Hail Master” Mingled with blood is as Peter cuts off the ear.
Sunset to Midnight, “Let there be Light.” I am the True Vine, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, In My Father’s House are many Mansions, I go to prepare a place for you, as Jesus pours out the Light.
Those who trust in the Lord are as Mount Zion, Jesus is that Mountain, Burning with God’s word or fire, Second angel sounds at Midnight, Great Mountain burning with fire is cast into the Sea or the Gathering together of the People as water, The Disciples have Faith like a mustard seed, NO FAITH at all. Jesus is reaching for Non-Jews also, That does not set well with the Disciples.
Parable of building Bigger barns, is Jesus reaching for all, Not just the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
Second day in Genesis, People as waters, 144 with Judas above Jesus which is as the Firmament, sinners as waters under the Firmament, Disciples flee as Islands. Those cold to Jesus as the Snow “Let the Snow be upon the earth”
Job 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
Third day in Genesis the waters are gathered together, or all in Christ “With His stripes we are healed.”
Psalms 69:Save me, O God; for the waters are come in unto my soul.
The Second picture is as 2 12-hour periods seen as 2 witnesses in Revelation. Because God double twice, the day is made as a week, Each of the pictures of the day is also then made a week as it is doubled, So they see the dead bodies of the Witnesses three days and a half or half a week for each. Life enters into them when it is fulfilled.
|6 years ago :: Nov 27, 2007 - 10:35PM #6|
The Third picture is as 1 24-hour period seen as 24 Elders in Revelation. So the day as 7 time periods and seen as 3 pictures also seen as days is ten days total, “Ye shall have tribulation 10 days.
The day is as 1,000 years, alive 930 As Adam, Dead or desolate 70 as Jerusalem. About 1 hour and forty minuted dead, to get the Body, Wrap it, roll the stone and leave before the Sabbath.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
So the 144 with Judas gather all things which offend (Jesus with all sin) from the one end of Heaven to the Other, from the one end of the earth to the other, Jesus is also the ELECT which the angels gather the same way.
Jesus is the City seen as New Jerusalem descending down from Heaven (old) between midnight to sunrise. The day as 3 pictures, each looking at the same day, But each differently.
So when Heaven and earth (old) flee from His face which is the Black Horse, Then the White horse or first time period moves forward and it becomes the Great White Throne of Judgment. Everyone is Judged by what is written in the Books.
What is written in the Books is All iniquity on Jesus in Isaiah 53:6, His righteousness on man in Job 33:26. So everyman is given according to His works, or what Jesus did is credited to us, Sheep seen as the Wicked in Jeremiah 12:1/3, Given the Righteousness of Christ, so all our righteousness is as filthy rags, we all have His.
So the Sheep enter the Kingdom prepared for them from the Foundation of the World, and the Lamb is slain from the Foundation of the World.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
The Question is for Jesus, and the answer is hanging on a Cross outside Jerusalem.
The 1,000 year reign of Christ is the day of the Cross, He can save the world or Himself. The rest of the dead lived not till the 1,000 years was over, that is the Second day.
Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
A Hole in the Ground is not a bottomless pit, a Seed like a Peach is, And a seed does not go into the Ground and DIE, Unless that seed happens to be Jesus which had to die. When a seed pit sprouts, it OPENS, and it has SIDES.
Jesus has the power to take up His life, But He could not use it, He had to be there the third day to fulfill the Scripture when they are set free out of hell:
Zechariah 9:11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.
This is where Jesus had to WAIT ON THE LORD:
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Remember where the Carcase is, There shall the Eagles be gathered together? That is the dead Body of Christ in hell. And it is also END TIMES:
Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Nahum 3:15 There shall the fire devour thee; the sword shall cut thee off, it shall eat thee up like the cankerworm: make thyself many as the cankerworm, make thyself many as the locusts.
So together with Christ’s dead Body they arise, like a swarm of Locust, and their lifting up is as smoke. Those without the Seal or who do not know God, they will hurt when they tell them of the love and Mercy of God, They are by Heaven’s gate, speaking to the enemies at the gate who do not want to go in.
Jesus had to take sins willingly, Past and present sins ended “With His stripes we are healed.” Then Jesus takes future sins to get the keys to death and hell or makes the tree evil willingly, so He can get into hell and take them all out, So where Jesus was going, (Hell) they could not follow, For hell ended the third day, When He made and end of sin, and brought in everlasting righteousness as Daniel 9:24 shows.
The Seal in Daniel 9:24 kept the Disciples and Paul, and Even Jesus said the Father had SEALED Him, from seeing sin ended as Accountable to man, it was paid in full at Golgotha. So for the Overspreading of Abominations (all future sins on Christ) He shall make it desolate, or Jesus had to die, The Abomination of Desolations spoken of by Daniel.
Then the Consummation:
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The MIDST of the Week is the fourth 6-hour period from noon to sunset as Jesus died and ended the Daily Sacrifice once and for all time.
So the Consummation is poured upon the Desolate or dead body of Christ with mankind in that Body “Together with My dead body shall they arise.” Even though we were healed, still being human, Christ died for us when He took our future sins.
Isaiah 10:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
This left a lot of Revelation unaddressed. But a lot was addressed. More then enough to show a view of the day of the Cross not seen by the Church, or at least not accepted.