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Switch to Forum Live View Extrasensory Perception: Pure Craziness?
4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2011 - 8:25PM #21
Erey
Posts: 18,594

OK,


Well let's take it down a notch or two.  Let's talk about savants.  Savants are typically people who are mentally retarded, many times severly and really can't do basic math, sometimes can't even count,  can't take care of themselves.


It is rare but sometimes you find these people that can when a jar of toothpicks is dropped can tell you almost immediately the exact number of toothpicks - and they are right every time.  The are not just counting super fast, they don't even really grasp the concept of counting.


Or you throw out a random date July 21, 1886 and each time you throw out a date they lightning quick can tell you immediately what day of the week that was - right every time.  They are not figuring lighting fast.


There is one guy in Colorado who has a very low IQ of 40 or 50 and all he has to do is merely glimpse an animal and he can render in a short period of time (mostly less than one hour) a beautiful clay sculpture of that animal.  Other than that this guy is doing good to tie his own shoes.


People like this are rare but they just kind of know the right answer without being able to tell you how.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2011 - 9:03PM #22
mountain_man
Posts: 39,147

Jan 13, 2011 -- 8:25PM, Erey wrote:

Well let's take it down a notch or two.  Let's talk about savants.  Savants are typically people who are mentally retarded, many times severly and really can't do basic math, sometimes can't even count,  can't take care of themselves.....



Why "take it down a notch or two"? No one is yelling.


Those with Savant Syndrome do not posess paranormal psychic abilities. They can do some amazing things like play a piece of music on the piano that they heard once 15 years ago, tell the day of the week for any date in history, multiply 15 digit numbers in their head, and stuff like that. Telling someone the number of toothpicks spilled on the floor is not an indication of psychic abilities. There is nothing coming from the pile of toothpicks to be received and interpreted by the brain.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2011 - 9:29PM #23
Erey
Posts: 18,594

Jan 13, 2011 -- 9:03PM, mountain_man wrote:


Jan 13, 2011 -- 8:25PM, Erey wrote:

Well let's take it down a notch or two.  Let's talk about savants.  Savants are typically people who are mentally retarded, many times severly and really can't do basic math, sometimes can't even count,  can't take care of themselves.....



Why "take it down a notch or two"? No one is yelling.


Those with Savant Syndrome do not posess paranormal psychic abilities. They can do some amazing things like play a piece of music on the piano that they heard once 15 years ago, tell the day of the week for any date in history, multiply 15 digit numbers in their head, and stuff like that. Telling someone the number of toothpicks spilled on the floor is not an indication of psychic abilities. There is nothing coming from the pile of toothpicks to be received and interpreted by the brain.




I didn't mean to imply that anyone was yelling.  I was just taking it down from the fantastic to the more concrete.  I am not saying they posess paranormal abilities or psychic abilities.   But they do just know things that they should not know, they have access to knowledge.  Granted it is very, very  narrow in scope. 


And I am not saying their abilites come from anything woo woo, possibly with better knowledge of the structure of the brain at some point brain experts might be able to see where their brains differ in a way that gives them these abilities. 

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2011 - 9:58PM #24
mountain_man
Posts: 39,147

Jan 13, 2011 -- 9:29PM, Erey wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that anyone was yelling.  I was just taking it down from the fantastic to the more concrete.  I am not saying they posess paranormal abilities or psychic abilities.   But they do just know things that they should not know, they have access to knowledge.  Granted it is very, very  narrow in scope.



There is no evidence that they "know things they should not know."


And I am not saying their abilites come from anything woo woo, possibly with better knowledge of the structure of the brain at some point brain experts might be able to see where their brains differ in a way that gives them these abilities. 



Their brain is working differently than ours. The answer is more prosaic that many want to believe. Some doctors suggest that most of the SS brain is applied to one "ability." Others have different hypotheses. The last I heard they don't know what exactly is going on. Whatever is going on in those brains it has nothing to do with alleged psychic powers.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2011 - 10:06PM #25
Erey
Posts: 18,594

Jan 13, 2011 -- 9:58PM, mountain_man wrote:


Jan 13, 2011 -- 9:29PM, Erey wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that anyone was yelling.  I was just taking it down from the fantastic to the more concrete.  I am not saying they posess paranormal abilities or psychic abilities.   But they do just know things that they should not know, they have access to knowledge.  Granted it is very, very  narrow in scope.



There is no evidence that they "know things they should not know."


And I am not saying their abilites come from anything woo woo, possibly with better knowledge of the structure of the brain at some point brain experts might be able to see where their brains differ in a way that gives them these abilities. 



Their brain is working differently than ours. The answer is more prosaic that many want to believe. Some doctors suggest that most of the SS brain is applied to one "ability." Others have different hypotheses. The last I heard they don't know what exactly is going on. Whatever is going on in those brains it has nothing to do with alleged psychic powers.




I did not say they have psychic powers and I would not call them psychic.  But I definately have to say they know things or can answer to things they should not be able to. 


Their brain definately is working differently than ours which is rather interesting.  They know things or are able to know things that should be beyond them. 

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2011 - 10:39PM #26
solfeggio
Posts: 9,130

Laughing  I don't care if something can be 'scientifically proven' or not, whether some unusual occurence can or cannot be replicated, or even if every scientist in the world trashes paranormal experiences.  As far as I'm concerned, ESP exists.


And not just ESP, either.  I am a firm believer in paranormal activities of every sort, from near-death experiences, telepathy, sixth sense in nonhuman animals, ghosts, mediums, reincarnation, past-life regressions, and automatic writing. 


And I've absolutely no doubt that beings from other worlds or parallel universes - or wherever - have visited our galaxy and been glimpsed as UFOs.


There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.


- Hamlet, Act 1, scene V.


Shakespeare had it right on the nose with that one.


Just because you can't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


After all, plenty of people believe in a god, and there's no way anybody is ever going to prove the existence of that being!  Wink


 

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2011 - 11:10PM #27
Stardove
Posts: 15,294

Jan 13, 2011 -- 10:39PM, solfeggio wrote:


  I don't care if something can be 'scientifically proven' or not, whether some unusual occurence can or cannot be replicated, or even if every scientist in the world trashes paranormal experiences.  As far as I'm concerned, ESP exists.


And not just ESP, either.  I am a firm believer in paranormal activities of every sort, from near-death experiences, telepathy, sixth sense in nonhuman animals, ghosts, mediums, reincarnation, past-life regressions, and automatic writing. 


And I've absolutely no doubt that beings from other worlds or parallel universes - or wherever - have visited our galaxy and been glimpsed as UFOs.


There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.


- Hamlet, Act 1, scene V.


Shakespeare had it right on the nose with that one.


Just because you can't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


After all, plenty of people believe in a god, and there's no way anybody is ever going to prove the existence of that being! 

 




+ 1


Laughing 


I have witnessed too much not to be a believer!!!


So for those which don't, it is your loss.

Beliefnet Community Wide Moderator ~ Peace Love Stardove
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The words I speak and write carry energy and power, so I choose them with care and clear purpose. 

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2011 - 1:07AM #28
mountain_man
Posts: 39,147

Jan 13, 2011 -- 10:06PM, Erey wrote:

I did not say they have psychic powers and I would not call them psychic.  But I definately have to say they know things or can answer to things they should not be able to.



The point is that the determination that they "know things or can answer to things they should not be able to" is a claim that is not scientifically valid. Why shouldn't they "know" these things? Since this thread is about ESP and claims about ESP, one has to question why SSs are being brought up if not to suggest that some kind of paranormal thing is going on with them.


Their brain definately is working differently than ours which is rather interesting.  They know things or are able to know things that should be beyond them. 




Apparently it is not beyond them.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2011 - 1:10AM #29
mountain_man
Posts: 39,147

Jan 13, 2011 -- 10:39PM, solfeggio wrote:

  I don't care if something can be 'scientifically proven' or not, whether some unusual occurence can or cannot be replicated, or even if every scientist in the world trashes paranormal experiences.  As far as I'm concerned, ESP exists.....



That's OK, many share such beliefs and no amount of proof otherwise will convince them. They want to believe and that's it. Which is fine, they can believe all they want, they can maintain their immunity to the facts all they want, they can keep their mind closed all they want. I'll stick with facts instead of beliefs.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2011 - 1:17AM #30
mountain_man
Posts: 39,147

Jan 13, 2011 -- 11:10PM, Stardove wrote:

I have witnessed too much not to be a believer!!!


So for those which don't, it is your loss.



Sticking with reality is never a loss. There are too many wonderous things out there to enjoy. I have no need to make up magical things just to make humans to be more than they really are.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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