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Switch to Forum Live View Ouija "Dangers" vs Other Types of Divination
5 years ago  ::  Oct 23, 2009 - 10:14PM #31
Urukai
Posts: 1,048

Hey there Dream,

Come on in any time you like. Pull up a chair or bean bag, yes Im from that 60s generation and I admit I used to have one...I miss it...I admit that too...Tongue out


Feel free to join in whenever your comfortable...


Everyone is welcome...


Hugs and Much Love

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 23, 2009 - 11:27PM #32
Dreamweever2
Posts: 733

(((Urukai)))


I wish I had something to actually add to the conversation. I haven't even gotten to the point of being able to do meditation because I really don't know what I'm doing with that either. As a teen, I had an ouiji board, but I don't really ever remember doing anything with it, so if I did ever use it with friends, we must not have gotten very far with it. I do know that I have times where I have a pretty good sense of intuition, but I'm sure that there are a lot of times that I don't pay attention to it like I should. I tend to get caught up in what's going on rather than to quiet my mind enough to listen. My emotions tend to get in the way, but at the same time they show me how other people feel in situations. Sorry for the segway off topic. Like I said, I really don't have much to add to the conversation. 

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 23, 2009 - 11:51PM #33
Urukai
Posts: 1,048

Don't worry Dream -Your right where you need to be in the here and now and your doing great!


We are better for (((you))) being here...


 


Hugs


 

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 24, 2009 - 12:02AM #34
Teknmage
Posts: 332

I'm curious, the Ouija board was sold as a novelty and thought appropriate for say twelve year olds to use. Would you Urukai really be okay turning twelve years olds lose with a Parker Brother's Ouija board and no more instructions than what Parker Brothers includes? Are they that safe in your opinion?


I'll acknowledge that I would not be comfortable doing that. Does that equate to saying no twelve year olds should have access to an Ouija Board? No. Nor would I be comfortable giving twelve year olds access to many other tools with no more information than what may come with the tool.  Again that in no way equates with a desire on my part to ban multiple tools.


I'm sorry that you seem to refuse to understand the difference between the suggestion that if tens of millions of contacts have occurred with angelic beings/spirits/forces that we should see after forty years some sign, some effect of this contact in my opinion. My point was not to blame the sorrows of this world on Ouija boards. But rather to acknowledge my belief that when one interacts with positive forces/spirits/beings/people that their is a real effect that can be seen in this world.


History can teach us many lessons if we are willing to look... People of the First Nations in the New World most likely believe in their own power, in their own strength. Our history teaches many lessons about what happens when two societies of different strengths meet and interact. The people of the First Nations paid a high price for their willingness to greet and accept the Europeans. I'm sure that many First Nation people believed that something unseen and unfelt could not hurt them also. For those who contracted smallpox it was a harsh lesson.


There are many views about the spiritual realms. I attempted to address a number of beliefs. From the Ouija is just a toy, to all psychic forces are angels and are inherently good... My belief is the Ouija Board can be used to open doorways to other realms. That if one is willing to try and open a doorway one must be willing to take ownership of not only the doorway but what it may permit to cross over.  It is my belief that if one believes such a doorway only provides access to things of a *good* nature one is most likely in my opinion insufficiently mature to effectively control what may attempt to use that doorway....


Many things can be seen as providing fun...


Many people IMHO lack the maturity to attempt to deal with the consequences of their night of fun.


One can certainly claim that nothing of a spiritual nature can *harm* one of this world. One can claim there are no negative consequences ever of interactions between this realm and others. One can claim that nothing *good* can come of another realm. One can pretty much claim anything. That doesn't make it true. Personally I would rather be warn of potential harm and be put on alert, than told wrongly that their is nothing to fear, when it is possible the person telling me I have nothing to worry about doesn't even take the time to inquire what I am fearful of!!


There is a world of difference between saying be aware of the potential consequences of your actions, and simply don't go there.  I am able to eat peanuts, but because I am able to (and I am blessed with a little knowledge) I am unwilling to tell everyone here try this peanut you'll like it. It will not harm you. I eat them all the time. Or drink this milk, or try this alcohol.... Some will hear and understand what I have attempted to voiced here, and others will choose to be offended So be it.  To twist my words and thoughts.


 

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 24, 2009 - 1:23AM #35
Urukai
Posts: 1,048

Teknmage,


Im sorry about the multiple quote thing so Im going to use color the best I can...


Teknmage normal type color...


Myself in purple...


 


Teknmage "I'm curious, the Ouija board was sold as a novelty and thought appropriate for say twelve year olds to use. Would you Urukai really be okay turning twelve years olds lose with a Parker Brother's Ouija board and no more instructions than what Parker Brothers includes? Are they that safe in your opinion?"


1st it was a 2 year old and now a 12 year old.  You keep bringing up children and Ive already said what I think about that...


 


Teknmage"I'm sorry that you seem to refuse to understand the difference between the suggestion that if tens of millions of contacts have occurred with angelic beings/spirits/forces that we should see after forty years some sign, some effect of this contact in my opinion. My point was not to blame the sorrows of this world on Ouija boards. But rather to acknowledge my belief that when one interacts with positive forces/spirits/beings/people that their is a real effect that can be seen in this world."


Im not refusing to understand...Im disagreeing because I do understand what your saying and have a different view...there is a difference...


What is 40 years compared to the thousands upon thousands years we have been doing this sort of thing?


We humans have been contacting the other realms for a long time, a long time.  Divination tools have been around for a long time in one form or another. In a hundred thousand years we will have new forms of divination that others will decry and we will still be here. We are not as flimsy as you might think.


 


Teknmage "History can teach us many lessons if we are willing to look... People of the First Nations in the New World most likely believe in their own power, in their own strength. Our history teaches many lessons about what happens when two societies of different strengths meet and interact. The people of the First Nations paid a high price for their willingness to greet and accept the Europeans. I'm sure that many First Nation people believed that something unseen and unfelt could not hurt them also. For those who contracted smallpox it was a harsh lesson."


The lesson is what? What shoud the First Nations have done...? Been as blood thirsty as the settlers?  What are you suggesting we do?


 


Teknmage "There are many views about the spiritual realms. I attempted to address a number of beliefs. From the Ouija is just a toy,"


Nope I agree - its a tool...I never said it was a toy.


Teknmage..."to all psychic forces are angels and are inherently good."


Nope never said that or implied it either... and I don't think its an either or kind of thing...That they must be angels and are inherently good OR conversely that if they are not angels they then must be demons and inherently evil...


There is a whole host of other things they could be and some we probably couldn't even imagine...doesn't make them good or evil...just what they are.


 


Teknmage.. My belief is the Ouija Board can be used to open doorways to other realms. That if one is willing to try and open a doorway one must be willing to take ownership of not only the doorway but what it may permit to cross over.  It is my belief that if one believes such a doorway only provides access to things of a *good* nature one is most likely in my opinion insufficiently mature to effectively control what may attempt to use that doorway....Many things can be seen as providing fun...Many people IMHO lack the maturity to attempt to deal with the consequences of their night of fun."


 


The Ouija board isn't the door - you are...the Ouija is a tool for focus...


And yes I have repeatedly stated maturity, responsibility and knowledge are key so no disagreement there...


 


Teknmage "One can certainly claim that nothing of a spiritual nature can *harm* one of this world.  One can claim there are no negative consequences ever of interactions between this realm and others. One can claim that nothing *good* can come of another realm. One can pretty much claim anything. That doesn't make it true.


 Again I never made such a claim that nothing spiritual can harm a person. I am disagreeing with your supposition that the beings on the other side necessarily fall into those polar encapsulations. Angels/demons = Good/evil....I think the universe is alittle more complicated than that.


 


Teknmage "Personally I would rather be warn of potential harm and be put on alert, than told wrongly that their is nothing to fear, when it is possible the person telling me I have nothing to worry about doesn't even take the time to inquire what I am fearful of!!


Again I never said there was nothing to fear...humans have all sorts of things they fear...I said be responsible, be mature and figuratively speaking know your stuff so there will be a lot fewer fires to put out... 


There is a world of difference between saying be aware of the potential consequences of your actions, and simply don't go there.  I am able to eat peanuts, but because I am able to (and I am blessed with a little knowledge) I am unwilling to tell everyone here try this peanut you'll like it. It will not harm you. I eat them all the time. Or drink this milk, or try this alcohol.... Some will hear and understand what I have attempted to voiced here, and others will choose to be offended So be it.  To twist my words and thoughts."


I have never said to try ouija or any divination tool...I said what Ive already said a dozen time...maturity and responsibility...


Nobody is twisting your words not even the derogatory ones in this post or the ones previously made...


Teknmage"The Ouija Board ended up outselling the game of Monopoly in its first full year at Salem. A place that some I'm sure would suggest has a taint of it's own.


Just reread that post and how you connected Ouija to Charles Mansion...



Uhhuh...


I think I am done...


The world has always had its problems and they have to do with more than ouija...


You say what you need to...


You and I do not agree...and this will probably just deteriorate further which wasn't the point of this at all...


So I am going to end my participation in this thread...wish you well and let this go...










 

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 24, 2009 - 3:27AM #36
Bennya
Posts: 5

Thanks guys for all the comments and such but did you all go astray? Maybe we dont need tools such as a simple board but it really is a great way to reach out to a world beyond. I told you of my experiences now has anybody out there got any that really happened? What I have told is true and just a small part of what has happened using ouija board. We can all tell what we have read and so on but I would like to hear about real stories. My girlfriend has not experienced what I have and she would like to but we have trouble connecting with the other side. It is like the board is broken and can get no response. So if you have real stories I would love to hear about them and I have more if anyone else feels like I do and would like to know what it is like to talk to the other side. And yes as kids we played with these boards but never touched on what we have as adults.

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 24, 2009 - 9:32AM #37
BeerLover
Posts: 1,210

Wow, an actual discussion here in the sleepy Tarot boards.  Amazing.

First of all, welcome friends, old and new!  It is good to see you all. I, too, would like to hear other Ouji board stories. 

Now Teknmage, I feel your frustration, but don't really understand the cause of it.  I've read through the thread twice now and fail to see anything but honest disagreement- actually like people taling past each other.  Nobody is claiming ouji boards are safe for all to use.  Nobody is denying the reality of the spirit world.  I don't believe anybody here is twisting your words around.  But I'm willing to look at a specific example, and if it violates the ROC, it will disappear.  I may also move the entire thread to the Esoteric Debate board.  Let me know what you all think about that.

Question for you (and others):  Do you think Ouji boards are more dangerous than other tools- tarot cards, pendulums, crystals, magical incantations, or drumming CD's which help you journey? I'll save my own opinion for a bit.

We can talk about the world being a bettr place in a separate post as well.


Blesings to all,


BeerLover

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 24, 2009 - 11:45AM #38
Bennya
Posts: 5

Hi Beerlover


I for one dont think ouija boards are more dangerous they are a tool and from what I have seen by using one it is just a tool. There are lots of ways Im sure to link to other side but this has been personal choice. My oldest sister likes Tarot Cards and is a firm believer in them. I am still waiting on some good true stories of someone using Ouija Boards and what they truely think of their use. Thanks

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 24, 2009 - 11:47AM #39
Wendyness
Posts: 3,013

I do not summon spirits when using Tarot.  I'm sure you can, but it is my energy going into a reading, not a spirits energy.  And I always ask God before I read to reveal what I need to see.  Open me to read the symbols.  

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 24, 2009 - 1:11PM #40
Teknmage
Posts: 332

Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:


Teknmage,


Im sorry about the multiple quote thing so Im going to use color the best I can...


Teknmage normal type color...


Myself in purple...


 


If you would like some help in learning to use multiple quote, e-mail me and I'll try to help you.  There is also the User to User group that has some instructions on using quotes and examples....


Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:

1st it was a 2 year old and now a 12 year old.  You keep bringing up children and Ive already said what I think about that...



 I keep bringing children into the discussion because it is part of the history of the Ouija Board, (and I believe we can learn from history) it was marketed by a toy company as a toy... I first touch an Ouija board as a twelve year old child. I had a few friends and acquaintances that year who like me where first introduced to the Ouija Board as nothing more than a toy, a spooky toy perhaps but still a toy.


Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:

Im not refusing to understand...Im disagreeing because I do understand what your saying and have a different view...there is a difference...


What is 40 years compared to the thousands upon thousands years we have been doing this sort of thing?


We humans have been contacting the other realms for a long time, a long time.  Divination tools have been around for a long time in one form or another. In a hundred thousand years we will have new forms of divination that others will decry and we will still be here. We are not as flimsy as you might think.



A fare question and I'll share with you my answer to it...


What is the difference between dropping a grain of sand in the ocean, and dropping an asteroid in the gulf? Size, and perhaps extinction? You are right the tools have been around for a long time.  So does that mean like with peanuts we have nothing to worry about? That the Ouija board is nothing more than a toy? Of course not... A loaded gun can sit in a draw for years and years and never go off, never be a threat. Add a child and what is not dangerous before can become dangerous.... As you say for thousands of year channeling has been around, so what is different now? In 1966 it was marketed as a game for children, teens if you will. We as a society gave our children (millions of children) tools to enable them to channel and turned them lose without any real guidance. Sure channeling has been around a very long time but those who attempted to open doorways have been limited, suddenly not hundreds, not thousands, not even tens of thousands of doorways where open, but rather millions of doorways.


Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:

Nope I agree - its a tool...I never said it was a toy.



And I never said you said it was a toy. None the less it was sold in the toy department of many stores, it was manufactured by a toy company. And to this day many people believe it to be nothing more than a toy. Certainly many parents gave it to their children believing it to be nothing more than a toy. You claim my words will not be twisted (and that statement was not direct at you by the way) but is not the implication here that I have suggested you claimed it to be a toy? Or are you stating that it was not sold as a toy by it's maker?


Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:

Nope never said that or implied it either... and I don't think its an either or kind of thing...That they must be angels and are inherently good OR conversely that if they are not angels they then must be demons and inherently evil...



There are more views on this thread than just yours, or mine. I've not said or implied that it must be an either or kind of thing. I see it more as a range of possible responses.  For the purposes of this thread, this discussion however, only two actually matter and one of them is it possible to encounter evil by channeling? If you believe that evil does not exist in this realm then no harm can be done by creating a doorway, by communicating with these forces, by channeling. On the other hand if one is willing to acknowledge that this realm is not an either or kind of place, if one is willing to acknowledge the possibility of evil ~ then a warning of some kind is valid.


Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:

There is a whole host of other things they could be and some we probably couldn't even imagine...doesn't make them good or evil...just what they are.



I'm willing to acknowledge that my significance to these forces could be less than the significance of a bug to me. That I could be stepped on and squish with no malice or forethought at all. Still I would choose to experience my squishing as a *bad* thing....


Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:

The Ouija board isn't the door - you are...the Ouija is a tool for focus...



I'm pretty sure I never said the Ouija board was a doorway but rather I have referred to the Ouija Board as being a tool used to open a doorway.


Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:

 Again I never made such a claim that nothing spiritual can harm a person. I am disagreeing with your supposition that the beings on the other side necessarily fall into those polar encapsulations. Angels/demons = Good/evil....I think the universe is alittle more complicated than that.



Where have I stated that you made this claim? Would you deny my belief? My experience teaches me that the Ouija Board is far more than the simple toy that some suggest it is. That it is both not safe for all to use, and that it is not safe to use anywhere, willy nilly. And I'm sorry that you hear in what I have shared that beings/forces/spirits must fall into only a good/evil concept. For the purposes of this discussion (again) from my point of view all one needs to accept is that the beings/forces/spirits don't need to by definition only be seeking my advancement and are actively looking out for me.  Perhaps they simply don't care one way or another about the user of an Ouija Board, that lack of caring can lead to events that user experiences as evil, as bad....


 Ever watch Ghost Busters? Many investigators have associated EMF fields with haunting. We do not fully understand the long term effects from exposure to EMF. Many believe that it can be harmful. Many people claim to have experience a drop in room temperature this is a transference of power, that can be measured and seen with the correct devices. We are talking about energy here. Many people involved with spirits have real and lasting health issues, many people die from various forms of cancer. And cancer has been linked to EMF.


Perhaps these forces are unaware of their effect, or their long term effect. If I increase my chance of dying by cancer perhaps it doesn't matter to me, until the final stages. Does that require malice, or forethought on the part of some kind of spirit? No of course not, perhaps it is nothing more than a side effect of the way the spirit chooses to manifest itself. Still from the perspective of the person with cancer the pain and harm are just as real, just as life threatening.


Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:

Again I never said there was nothing to fear...humans have all sorts of things they fear...I said be responsible, be mature and figuratively speaking know your stuff so there will be a lot fewer fires to put out... 



And once again I have never claimed you stated there is nothing to fear.  Certainly Parker Brothers never included a long list of negative consequences from the use of this toy. And once again as more than one was given to me as a child, it was certainly never suggested that it be only used by adults who where well skilled in it's use by Parker Brothers.  Why this need to state that you never made a claim?


Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:

I have never said to try ouija or any divination tool...I said what Ive already said a dozen time...maturity and responsibility...


Nobody is twisting your words not even the derogatory ones in this post or the ones previously made...



Again and again in this post you have claimed to not stated things with the implication that I have stated you have said this about the Ouija Board or spirits. I have simply stated my belief that the Ouija Board is more than a toy.  You state that I have been derogatory to who and where?


The sixties where a time of change.  Millions of Ouija Boards where sold, this is a fact. Do you wish to dispute it? And if everyone of those boards was but used once and destroyed then millions and millions of doorways where thrown open. We know that realistically that these boards where not used once and destroyed. That they where indeed used multiple times. What is the potential effect of throwing open so very many doorways? What where the significant events of the sixties? One in my opinion (and others) was Charles Manson. You wish to express your opinion that there is no link? LOL Okay.


Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:

Oct 23, 2009 -- 5:10PM, Teknmage wrote:

Teknmage"The Ouija Board ended up outselling the game of Monopoly in its first full year at Salem. A place that some I'm sure would suggest has a taint of it's own. ... Was it just three years later that Charles Manson made his appearance?



Just reread that post and how you connected Ouija to Charles Mansion...



Uhhuh...


I think I am done...



Okay I've reread it. And I stand by it. What part do you wish to deny? Do you claim that the Ouija Board did not out sell Monopoly? That perhaps countless millions of Ouija Boards have not been manufactured since 1966? That the Ouija Board was not produced in Salem? That Salem does not have a taint, a history, that evil was not done there? That perhaps Charles Manson was just another killer and nothing special?


In this era of free speech we do not have free speech. There are facts that I am not permitted to post here and connections that can not be posted here.  


Oct 24, 2009 -- 1:23AM, Urukai wrote:

The world has always had its problems and they have to do with more than ouija...


You say what you need to...


You and I do not agree...and this will probably just deteriorate further which wasn't the point of this at all...


So I am going to end my participation in this thread...wish you well and let this go...



As you say the world has always had it's problems, and the world has always had those opening doorways and inviting.... And no that is not to suggest that all the worlds problems can all be laid on the Ouija Board and channeling, or on Divination. I'm willing to acknowledge that, are you willing to acknowledge the possibility that *some* problems can be laid on Channeling and other forms of Divination? Knowledge is convey by channeling, and knowledge is power, and power has the ability to corrupt. This thread was suppose to be about the dangers of the Ouija Board and within this thread to my ears there is the suggestion that their is no danger, that it is harmless, or the only real danger is the evil the user has within himself or herself.


Many people believe that one should not use an Ouija Board where a murder has been done. That one should not use an Ouija Board in a graveyard. If you accept this belief that the simple use of an Ouija Board in an area where some one has died in the past can open one to undesirable forces. Then what of the effect on the board of creating the board in a tainted community? Be you Christians who believe they were rightly kill or be you non-Christians who believe they were wrongly killed. (Disclaimer here not attempting to suggest that only Christians believe this or non-Christians believe that) Just attempting to suggest that many see this place as tainted.











 


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