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Switch to Forum Live View Do you HAVE to make the tools for O. Watchtower?
6 years ago  ::  Aug 23, 2008 - 10:59PM #1
darkthroneofeth
Posts: 153
I posed this question on the "Sorcery" Page.   I have my staff--oak (fire elemental), but I need to know if I MUST make the Earth Pentacle, Water Cup, Fire Wand, Air Dagger, Enochian Tablet,  Triangle of the Art, Elemental plaques...     this is for astral evocation.   Would
--the entity not appear,
--I be harmed by the entity directly or indirectly,
--with angels it wouldn't matter?
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2008 - 1:33PM #2
EyesoftheWorld
Posts: 1,707
Hi darkthroneofeth, I don't have an answer for you, but I'm hoping you'd share with me, either here or private email me, what your objective is.

If you have time, please check out my "How it All Began" thread and you'll get an idea as to where I'm coming from.

Whether or not I ever hear from you, best wishes.
What Fatal Flowers of Darkness Bloom from Seeds of Light!
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 27, 2008 - 5:31AM #3
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833
I'm reposting the reply I made over on the Sorcery board in case you've not yet happened onto it. Besides, this is certainly the place for a question of that type.

You ask an excellent question, one that I personally wish more people would think through before taking on rituals they don't respect as much as they need to do.

Here's what I said over there:

Not that familiar with that particular ritual, but I'd generally agree with what sfatula says.

Anything Enochian, I'd definitely follow the instructions to the letter. That's getting into powerful and potentially unsettling stuff. I've never messed with Enochian. Acquired a healthy respect for the Angelic language via an astral encounter with a cadre of angels who barred my way, communicating to me intuitively that going that direction without significant preparation of a type I was not the least prepared to undertake would be a foolish choice indeed. They also made clear that if I proceeded anyway, I could not expect any help.

Some rituals represent a contract between the magickian and the entities with whom you'll work or whom you may encounter. For such, adhering to the terms fully and completely, inconvenient though doing so may be, is crucial. The more complex rituals such as Watchtower generally fall into this category, IME and IMO.


Added thoughts:  Probably resulting from all the popular hype about angels being warm fuzzy beings whose primary job and delight is watching over and protecting humans, too many people think that they can mess with Enochian without proper preparation and safeguards.

I've had enough encounters with angels to regard them as nothing to mess with. If I were ever to attempt to work a ritual that incorporated any Enochian, I would definitely follow the ritual's dictates to the letter. Someone with more experience with Enochian might well know what shortcuts or modifications can be made, as sfatula emphasized. However, until one is reasonably certain that you are such a person, anything to do with angels and certainly with use of their language would be something I'd approach with extreme diligence, following every directive to the letter. People get in enough trouble unintentionally offending native speakers of a foreign language. Offending angels is not something I'd recommend for kicks and giggles.

But then, I've had enough encounters with angels to tread very lightly indeed in their ballpark.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 27, 2008 - 5:02PM #4
EyesoftheWorld
Posts: 1,707
Ok, here are the two posts which DotNotinOz replied. I don't know which is the horse and which the cart and which way it's going, so this feels alright.
By the way, this was one of my very first, if not my very first post! I was so young!

  #1       08-14-2008, 08:06 PM 
EyesoftheWorld 
Level 5
Level 5   Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 87 

Hey folks, I've been reading some books by Aleister Crowley that contain some very interesting observations and revelations. (Book 4, the Book of Lies and the Book of Aleph in particular) Some contain some detailed instructions for certain rituals/ceremonies. I'm not planning on trying any but I've been thinking about how anyone could have possibly figured out the exact details.

I mean, I understand someone passing along a ceremony that has worked; my thought is, couldn't there be other ways to perform certain ceremonies and still be successful? As in it's the gesture and the intent that pleases or harmonizes with the object of the ritual, and I can understand the use of certain implements (like a scourge/sulpher, dagger/mercury and chain/salt, though how was that even figured out?!), but I find it hard to comprehend how people in the far or not so distant past worked out the exact way to perform a certain ceremony, and to accept that that way is the only way. Unless such information was passed unto humans from that which is being worshipped/celebrated? As in "Here is how you should appropriately worship me; tell all your friends."

I think I have conveyed my point, but I'll sum it up. Could there not be other ways to successfully perform certain rituals besides those which are to be found? Ostensibly, those which are to be found are successful. But if someone were to create a new ritual that "checked the boxes" so to speak, that previously successful ones do, is it not possible that it would work? Is there truly only one way to do a thing?

I've thought more about it, and I'd like to know about any results rituals/ceremonies produce.
Are there any perceivable consequences or is it solely an internal feeling of satisfaction that one has performed or participated in a particular ritual/ceremony?
If there is no perceivable result, how can one be sure they have been successful? Is it not possible they aren't doing it "right"?

I really appreciate any feedback, thoughts or answers. I feel some who are knowledgable may read this while I am less than a Novice. This is the first time and place I have tried to communicate with anyone else about such things.
What Fatal Flowers of Darkness Bloom from Seeds of Light!
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2008 - 8:07PM #5
darkthroneofeth
Posts: 153
[QUOTE=EyesoftheWorld;713616]Hi darkthroneofeth, I don't have an answer for you, but I'm hoping you'd share with me, either here or private email me, what your objective is.

If you have time, please check out my "How it All Began" thread and you'll get an idea as to where I'm coming from.

Whether or not I ever hear from you, best wishes.[/QUOTE]

I suppose there is no harm in me telling you my email.

zeromus888@verizon.net

is what it is.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2008 - 9:10AM #6
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833
Actually, you might want to reconsider posting your email. You can get onto all kinds of nasty mailing lists by doing so. For one thing, we get hit by fundie trolls and "drive-bys" every so often, some of whom would consider it their religious duty to subscribe your email address to all sorts of unpleasant mailing lists.

Copy the URL above your posting, pasting it into an email to community@staff.beliefnet.com asking that this posting be removed if you wish. The board host can do that.

But then, perhaps I'm simply paranoid. Your choice.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2008 - 10:37AM #7
EyesoftheWorld
Posts: 1,707
I know I'm paranoid. I just worry I'm not paranoid enough.
What Fatal Flowers of Darkness Bloom from Seeds of Light!
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2008 - 9:33PM #8
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833
Oh, I don't know that it was such a bad title. I got a giggle out of it. Okay, so I LIKE terrible puns and wordplays. I admit it.

Rockin' on wrote:


On the other hand, although I think its quite important to really put alot of thought into what you may BUY or find to use as your personal ritual tools..no,its not going to 'jinx' you with the Divine..at leadt this is my experience and strong belief. Just as you would hold any types of "touch stones" or jewelry/crystals that are going to be used in your work(to FEEL any type of energy that each seperate one may give off),so its also important not to just go out & buy the first thing you see which would look the part. Take your time,& in my personal experience,you will usually KNOw when you have found the 'right' one(tool) for you.



That's good general counsel on buying tools, Rockin'.

I used to advise people looking for tarot decks in the bookstore where I worked that finding the right deck was like really being in love. No question. You'd know when you held the deck that it was the one for you. That can be the case for tools, crystals and such as well.

The most uncanny experience I ever had of this type was when a Thoth deck box fell off the bookstore shelving and landed on my outstretched palm. I'm crappy at catching anything, but I saw it start to fall, shot out my hand, and it landed as if the whole move had been planned. Really a fairly eerie experience as there was no one on the opposite side who could have bumped the shelving section hard enough to dislodge only that one tarot deck and nothing else. We're talking at least a 25' long section of shelving loaded with books on one side and videos on the other.

Damn skippy I bought the deck. Hell, I figured otherwise it'd jump into my bag somehow, and I'd be arrested for shoplifting!

As I've mentioned previously, some of the more complex rituals indicate that you must make every tool specifically for use in that ritual. If I were going to attempt such a ritual, I would definitely do that. But that's just me. "Do what thou Wilt" and all that.

Otherwise, simply buying something that feels right to you for whatever your purpose...or that you can bury in soil or seasalt for a while to cleanse it if that seems advisable...generally speaking will work fine.

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