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Switch to Forum Live View 'Gimme that old time religion....'
3 years ago  ::  Aug 26, 2011 - 10:40PM #121
mountain_man
Posts: 39,763

Aug 26, 2011 -- 10:34PM, Girlchristian wrote:

Now you're just making ridiculous claims that you can't back up...


You mean like you, and other believers, do?


which makes this discussion pointless. I'm moving on.


Now you're catching on.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 26, 2011 - 10:45PM #122
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,424

Aug 26, 2011 -- 10:40PM, mountain_man wrote:


Aug 26, 2011 -- 10:34PM, Girlchristian wrote:

Now you're just making ridiculous claims that you can't back up...


You mean like you, and other believers, do?


I VERY CLEARLY said that I can't prove that God exists and it's my faith that tells me so. You, however, continue to claim that you have proof that God doesn't exist, which isn't true. Which one of us is more honest about our beliefs?





"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 26, 2011 - 11:44PM #123
mountain_man
Posts: 39,763

Aug 26, 2011 -- 10:45PM, Girlchristian wrote:

I VERY CLEARLY said that I can't prove that God exists and it's my faith that tells me so.


Putting it in red does not make it true. "Faith" is irrelevent. I care only about facts. You provided none, just your opinion.


You, however, continue to claim that you have proof that God doesn't exist, which isn't true.


What is true is that you ignored the facts I gave.


Which one of us is more honest about our beliefs?


Me.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 28, 2011 - 9:23AM #124
REteach
Posts: 14,877
I wonder if there would be such push back from atheists if theists most commonly conservative Christians, were not trying so hard to put faith into the public sphere in law and education?
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 28, 2011 - 11:30AM #125
mountain_man
Posts: 39,763

Aug 28, 2011 -- 9:23AM, REteach wrote:

I wonder if there would be such push back from atheists if theists most commonly conservative Christians, were not trying so hard to put faith into the public sphere in law and education?


I sincerely doubt there would be any push back since there would be nothing to push back against. Atheists are not against religion; we're against religion being forced into our lives.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 28, 2011 - 9:54PM #126
solfeggio
Posts: 9,367

From what I've read and seen, atheists are more tolerant of people with other beliefs than theists, and more likely to live and let live.  But atheists are not tolerant of unscientific claims, because atheists require scientific evidence if we are going to take some theory seriously.  Science seeks the truth.


Atheists are intolerant of irrational thinking and unreasonable beliefs.  Atheism is skepticism.


Or, as actor Ricky Gervais, an atheist, has pointed out:


blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/12/19/a-hol...


'The existence of god is not subjective.  He either exists or he doesn't.  It's not a matter of opinion.  You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.'


 

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 28, 2011 - 10:25PM #127
mountain_man
Posts: 39,763

Aug 28, 2011 -- 9:54PM, solfeggio wrote:

From what I've read and seen, atheists are more tolerant of people with other beliefs than theists, and more likely to live and let live.


Having been an Atheist for 57 years now, I can attest to that.


But atheists are not tolerant of unscientific claims, because atheists require scientific evidence if we are going to take some theory seriously.  Science seeks the truth.


Should we be tolerant of such untruthful, unscientific, claims when a large number pf people are trying to push them on the public, put them in our laws, put them in our schools, and into YOUR life?


Atheists are intolerant of irrational thinking and unreasonable beliefs.  Atheism is skepticism.


Skepticism is not a rejection of everything, it is a way, a method, of inquiry. The scientific method is based on skepticism. The skeptics motto: Sum Ergo Cogito


The existence of god is not subjective.  He either exists or he doesn't.  It's not a matter of opinion.  You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.'


The fact is there is no scientific evidence that shows us that a god could, or should, exist.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 28, 2011 - 10:29PM #128
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Aug 28, 2011 -- 9:54PM, solfeggio wrote:


From what I've read and seen, atheists are more tolerant of people with other beliefs than theists, and more likely to live and let live.  But atheists are not tolerant of unscientific claims, because atheists require scientific evidence if we are going to take some theory seriously.  Science seeks the truth.


Atheists are intolerant of irrational thinking and unreasonable beliefs.  Atheism is skepticism.


Or, as actor Ricky Gervais, an atheist, has pointed out:


blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/12/19/a-hol...


'The existence of god is not subjective.  He either exists or he doesn't.  It's not a matter of opinion.  You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.'


 




What others believe concerns them. I'm no poster girl for faith or religion or no faith or religon.


Not all believers are irrational or intollerant, though,and some who profess no belief can be just as intolerant.


Sweeping statements serve no cause.




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3 years ago  ::  Aug 28, 2011 - 10:57PM #129
solfeggio
Posts: 9,367

Well, what about looking at the results of some recent studies, then?


In the 2006 University of Minnesota Mosaic Atheist Study, which examined Americans' acceptance of atheists' beliefs, it was found that 'atheists are less likely to be accepted, publicly and privately, from a long list of ethnic, religious, and other minority groups.'


Also, 'Americans are less likely to accept intermarriage with atheists than with any other group, and less likely to imagine that atheists share their vision of American society.'


www.secularstudents.org/files/MosaicAthe...


As well, it has been determined that atheists and agnostics together make up only 7% of the American population.


Along with this information, take a look at the Pew Forum Religious Knowledge Survey, in which it was shown that atheists score highest on religious knowledge, above Jews or Christians:


pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices...


Evidently, atheists are less likely to commit crimes than religious people.   And secular countries have the lowest crime rates:


www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=137626365...


www.atheismresource.com/2010/atheist-don...


And then you have this interesting fact that divorce rates amongst atheists and agnostics are much lower than those of Christians:


atheism.about.com/od/atheistfamiliesmarr...


Sweeping statements?  Maybe, but facts don't lie.  There's a lot more to atheism and agnosticism than most religious people would care to admit.


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2011 - 12:14AM #130
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Aug 28, 2011 -- 10:57PM, solfeggio wrote:


Well, what about looking at the results of some recent studies, then?


In the 2006 University of Minnesota Mosaic Atheist Study, which examined Americans' acceptance of atheists' beliefs, it was found that 'atheists are less likely to be accepted, publicly and privately, from a long list of ethnic, religious, and other minority groups.'


Also, 'Americans are less likely to accept intermarriage with atheists than with any other group, and less likely to imagine that atheists share their vision of American society.'


www.secularstudents.org/files/MosaicAthe...


As well, it has been determined that atheists and agnostics together make up only 7% of the American population.


Along with this information, take a look at the Pew Forum Religious Knowledge Survey, in which it was shown that atheists score highest on religious knowledge, above Jews or Christians:


pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices...


Evidently, atheists are less likely to commit crimes than religious people.   And secular countries have the lowest crime rates:


www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=137626365...


www.atheismresource.com/2010/atheist-don...


And then you have this interesting fact that divorce rates amongst atheists and agnostics are much lower than those of Christians:


atheism.about.com/od/atheistfamiliesmarr...


Sweeping statements?  Maybe, but facts don't lie.  There's a lot more to atheism and agnosticism than most religious people would care to admit.




Solf, you do luv studies that promote your POV. Okay, by me. Personally I don't care what individuals believe or do not believe. It's not on my radar. In my generation I have noticed far fewer divorces among Catholics than among other Xtian denominations and not always because of rules--different orientation ans values. I don't do apologetics on any level--don't really care enuf.


Values matter more to me than affliliation or no affiliation.


J.


 

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