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Switch to Forum Live View A Good Book and Site on Contemporary Christian Mysticism
4 years ago  ::  Nov 20, 2010 - 2:42PM #1
soma77
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 25, 2010 - 2:42PM #2
Merope
Posts: 9,633

This thread was moved from Entertainment.


 

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4 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2010 - 4:01AM #3
BBarton
Posts: 1,670

Thanks, Merope.  I did like that site.  A good book too is:  "In Search of the Miraculous", the teachings of G. I. Gurdjieff by P. D. Ouspensky

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4 years ago  ::  Dec 01, 2010 - 2:37AM #4
Vardu
Posts: 786

Nov 29, 2010 -- 4:01AM, BBarton wrote:


Thanks, Merope.  I did like that site.  A good book too is:  "In Search of the Miraculous", the teachings of G. I. Gurdjieff by P. D. Ouspensky




 


Oh, you are kidding, right!?


Gurdjieff the infamous hoaxer!


 

Moderated by Merope on Dec 02, 2010 - 03:27PM
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 01, 2010 - 12:45PM #5
BBarton
Posts: 1,670

Dec 1, 2010 -- 2:37AM, Vardu wrote:


Nov 29, 2010 -- 4:01AM, BBarton wrote:


Thanks, Merope.  I did like that site.  A good book too is:  "In Search of the Miraculous", the teachings of G. I. Gurdjieff by P. D. Ouspensky




 


Oh, you are kidding, right!?


Gurdjieff the infamous hoaxer!



Everyone brings something to the table Vardu, I appreciate what I can learn from and leave behind what I can't use. 


Are you familiar with Eckart Tolle?  (Author of, "The Power of Now" and "A New Earth")


He refers to, "The Inner Pain Body".  It is the collective hurt part of us, that when triggered can overtake our thoughts and course of action.


Yeshua didn't come for the unlost or whole; he came for the broken and lost.  Here's how it works:


Some of us get broken and lost.  Usually before adulthood.  Often Grown-ups prey upon children; some of them were the protecters and nurturers, so trust gets destroyed.  This effects thinking, -especially self-esteem and of course, choices.  What Christ does for these transcends time and place.  He brings perfect love, that they can be whole; otherwise, they too might go bad. 


The broken and lost don't have to pass that on, but can pass on perfect love instead.  You know, the kind that takes the blows (verbal or otherwise), so others don't have to.  Generational abuse can end!  You don't have to understand, you don't have to belive; just allow, as others allow for you.


I don't seek any authority over others, or income from my way of viewing, I simply lead a better life.  I've been able to transcend ...and yes, Christ is my lifeline. 

Moderated by Merope on Dec 02, 2010 - 03:29PM
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2010 - 2:16AM #6
Vardu
Posts: 786

Dec 1, 2010 -- 12:45PM, BBarton wrote:


Dec 1, 2010 -- 2:37AM, Vardu wrote:


Nov 29, 2010 -- 4:01AM, BBarton wrote:


Thanks, Merope.  I did like that site.  A good book too is:  "In Search of the Miraculous", the teachings of G. I. Gurdjieff by P. D. Ouspensky




 


Oh, you are kidding, right!?


Gurdjieff the infamous hoaxer!


 


How far are some people willing to go to fill that vacuum at the center of their being?


 



 Everyone brings something to the table Vardu, I appreciate what I can learn from and leave behind what I can't use.


I entirely agree with this.


Are you familiar with Eckart Tolle?  (Author of, "The Power of Now" and "A New Earth")


Yes, I am familiar with his, largely recycled, views.


He refers to, "The Inner Pain Body".  It is the collective hurt part of us, that when triggered can overtake our thoughts and course of action.


Yeshua didn't come for the unlost or whole; he came for the broken and lost.  Here's how it works:


We can't be sure that 'Yeshua' came into the world at all, or that, if he did, exactly what he was about. All we really have is the accumulated myth and legend that grew around the idea of him. For all we know, and the evidence would tend to support this, 'Yeshua' was more a concretised idea that had circulated around the Middle East  -  witnessed in Egyptian mythology and the Orphic rites, etc - for millenniums


Some of us get broken and lost.  Usually before adulthood.  Often Grown-ups prey upon children; some of them were the protecters and nurturers, so trust gets destroyed.  This effects thinking, -especially self-esteem and of course, choices.


I can quite easily go along with this. It is basic psychology that requires no mystic-mooching.


 What Christ does for these transcends time and place. 


That's simply a belief, and one that finds different and even contradictory expression in various religions.


The broken and lost don't have to pass that on, but can pass on perfect love instead.  You know, the kind that takes the blows (verbal or otherwise), so others don't have to.  Generational abuse can end!  You don't have to understand, you don't have to belive; just allow, as others allow for you.


 I don't seek any authority over others, or income from my way of viewing, I simply lead a better life.


That's great, but, as I've said elsewhere, leading a better life doesn't necessitate that one either embrace unjustified beliefs or make claim to knowledge that one does not have. In fact, there is greater virtue in living a better live for its own sake rather than anchoring it in the unjustified and insupportable.


 




Moderated by Merope on Dec 02, 2010 - 03:34PM
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2010 - 1:24AM #7
Vardu
Posts: 786

Dec 2, 2010 -- 2:16AM, Vardu wrote:


Dec 1, 2010 -- 12:45PM, BBarton wrote:


Dec 1, 2010 -- 2:37AM, Vardu wrote:


Nov 29, 2010 -- 4:01AM, BBarton wrote:


Thanks, Merope.  I did like that site.  A good book too is:  "In Search of the Miraculous", the teachings of G. I. Gurdjieff by P. D. Ouspensky




 


Oh, you are kidding, right!?


Gurdjieff the infamous hoaxer!


 


How far are some people willing to go to fill that vacuum at the center of their being?


 



 Everyone brings something to the table Vardu, I appreciate what I can learn from and leave behind what I can't use.


Yes, it's called cherry-picking and it has little to recommend it. There is something of a lack of personal integrity in the predisposition.


Are you familiar with Eckart Tolle?  (Author of, "The Power of Now" and "A New Earth")


Yes, I am familiar with his, largely recycled, views.


He refers to, "The Inner Pain Body".  It is the collective hurt part of us, that when triggered can overtake our thoughts and course of action.


Yeshua didn't come for the unlost or whole; he came for the broken and lost.  Here's how it works:


We can't be sure that 'Yeshua' came into the world at all, or that, if he did, exactly what he was on about. All we really have is the accumulated myth and legend that grew around the idea of him. For all we know, and the evidence would tend to support this, 'Yeshua' was more a concretised idea that had circulated around the Middle East  -  witnessed in Egyptian mythology and the Orphic rites, etc - for millenniums


Some of us get broken and lost.  Usually before adulthood.  Often Grown-ups prey upon children; some of them were the protecters and nurturers, so trust gets destroyed.  This effects thinking, -especially self-esteem and of course, choices.


I can quite easily go along with this, but it is basic psychology and sociology that requires no mystic-mooching.


 What Christ does for these transcends time and place. 


That's simply a belief, and one that finds different and even contradictory expression in various religions. Furthermore, it is a belief that is largely the accident of birth and culture. Had you been born elsewhere, you might have found yourself advancing as strenuously the notion that the world was nothing more than the dream of Brahmah. 


The broken and lost don't have to pass that on, but can pass on perfect love instead.  You know, the kind that takes the blows (verbal or otherwise), so others don't have to.  Generational abuse can end!  You don't have to understand, you don't have to belive; just allow, as others allow for you.


 I don't seek any authority over others, or income from my way of viewing, I simply lead a better life.


That's great, but, as I've said elsewhere, leading a better life doesn't necessitate that one either embrace unjustified beliefs or make claim to knowledge that one does not have. In fact, I would suggest that there is greater virtue in living a better live for its own sake rather than anchoring it in the unsustainable and the insupportable.


 








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4 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2010 - 11:38AM #8
stardustpilgrim
Posts: 5,280

Dec 1, 2010 -- 2:37AM, Vardu wrote:


Nov 29, 2010 -- 4:01AM, BBarton wrote:


Thanks, Merope.  I did like that site.  A good book too is:  "In Search of the Miraculous", the teachings of G. I. Gurdjieff by P. D. Ouspensky




 


Oh, you are kidding, right!?


Gurdjieff the infamous hoaxer!


 




I would hazzard a guess that you've never heard of Gurdjieff until this post, and googled him. I reply only because many here have probably never heard of Gurdjieff and it would be a shame if all they ever heard was that he was a hoaxer.


For reasons of his own, Gurdjieff went out of his way to put himself in a bad light. This does not excuse the cases where he took advantage of other people's ignorance on occasion, many of the instances reported by Gurdjieff himself. Most of the occurrences that leave tails (an 'inside-joke') that might be googled were perpetrated on his own followers, in most cases gladly (by them, what he called shearing sheep).  

Do you know of any hoaxers who have a book on Martin Seymour-Smith's compendium of the 100 most influencial books ever written? Gurdjieff is there.


Gurdjieff knew more about human nature than anyone else in the last 1,000 years. Many ideas of today's world can be traced back to Gurdjieff. One is Martin Gardner's idea of multiple intelligences in man. (Not saying Gardner got his idea from Gurdjieff, but Gurdjieff predates Gardner). In a book written in the 20's Gurdjieff stated that nicotine is more addictive than heroin.


In Search of the Miraculous is Ouspensky's report of what he learned from Gurdjieff. It doesn't paint a pretty picture of mankind, it's rather bleak and unappealing, but true and honest. Man was created unfinished, and must participate in fulfilling his potential. This is in no sense easy. The vast majority of us are still unfinished........... 


Gurdjieff can be summed up with story of the young girl who was looking for her birthday wish. She was found in her back yard digging through a huge pile of manure. Her father asked her what on earth she was doing. She lifted up her head and smiled saying: Well...with all this crap, I figure there must be a pony under here somewhere........


Maybe Gurdjieff hid a diamond in a pile of ..... merde...........


sdp 

The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.
Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.
The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

A map is not the territory.                                                                 Alfred Korzybski

God is that function in the world by reason of which our purposes are directed to ends which in our own consciousness are impartial as to our own interests. He is that element in life in virtue of which judgment stretches beyond facts of existence to values of existence.      Alfred North Whitehead
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2010 - 2:32PM #9
Vardu
Posts: 786

Dec 3, 2010 -- 11:38AM, stardustpilgrim wrote:


Dec 1, 2010 -- 2:37AM, Vardu wrote:


Nov 29, 2010 -- 4:01AM, BBarton wrote:


Thanks, Merope.  I did like that site.  A good book too is:  "In Search of the Miraculous", the teachings of G. I. Gurdjieff by P. D. Ouspensky




 


Oh, you are kidding, right!?


Gurdjieff the infamous hoaxer!


 




I would hazzard a guess that you've never heard of Gurdjieff until this post, and googled him. I reply only because many here have probably never heard of Gurdjieff and it would be a shame if all they ever heard was that he was a hoaxer.


 


For reasons of his own, Gurdjieff went out of his way to put himself in a bad light. This does not excuse the cases where he took advantage of other people's ignorance on occasion, many of the instances reported by Gurdjieff himself. Most of the occurrences that leave tails (an 'inside-joke') that might be googled were perpetrated on his own followers, in most cases gladly (by them, what he called shearing sheep).  

Do you know of any hoaxers who have a book on Martin Seymour-Smith's compendium of the 100 most influencial books ever written? Gurdjieff is there.


Gurdjieff knew more about human nature than anyone else in the last 1,000 years. Many ideas of today's world can be traced back to Gurdjieff. One is Martin Gardner's idea of multiple intelligences in man. (Not saying Gardner got his idea from Gurdjieff, but Gurdjieff predates Gardner). In a book written in the 20's Gurdjieff stated that nicotine is more addictive than heroin.


In Search of the Miraculous is Ouspensky's report of what he learned from Gurdjieff. It doesn't paint a pretty picture of mankind, it's rather bleak and unappealing, but true and honest. Man was created unfinished, and must participate in fulfilling his potential. This is in no sense easy. The vast majority of us are still unfinished........... 


Gurdjieff can be summed up with story of the young girl who was looking for her birthday wish. She was found in her back yard digging through a huge pile of manure. Her father asked her what on earth she was doing. She lifted up her head and smiled saying: Well...with all this crap, I figure there must be a pony under here somewhere........


Maybe Gurdjieff hid a diamond in a pile of ..... merde...........


sdp 




 


Well, your hazarded guess is completely wrong. In fact, I'm very familiar with Gurdjieff - and many others of his ilk - and have been since my late, and impressionable, teens.


Your rationale for Gurdjieff, such as it is, entirely fails, and like Gurdjieff's notions themselves, has nothing to recommend it.


And your comment, "Do you know of any hoaxers who have a book on Martin Seymour-Smith's compendium of the 100 most influential books ever written" could only leave one bemused at best. Such a thing might only register the fact that human credulity seems to know no bounds.


 


I will give it to Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, though, that neither of them was predisposed to let truth spoil a good story.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2011 - 9:56PM #10
Puresoul
Posts: 43

People Who Lack Faith Require Solid Evidence Or Concrete Proof.  Doubt is stronger and more plentiful than anything else.  And that is why people take a stance against things like "The Fourth Way" or esoteric Christianity.


But those who belleve don't need to have everything backed up or referenced by archiological facts or anything like that.  FAITH is what we base our relationship with The Almighty CREATOR on. 


 

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