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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2009 - 8:07PM #11
Neomonist
Posts: 2,705

Jun 26, 2009 -- 7:13PM, whirlinggal wrote:



Neo-hi.


I've been trying since I last posted to come up with a good description of how Remote Viewing feels and how it feels different from other intentional experiences like intentional Shamanic work etc.




Hi wg


I wish I had a penny for every time I thought I'd come up with a good description only to toss it out five minutes later.


Jun 26, 2009 -- 7:13PM, whirlinggal wrote:


At this point I have to say that one of the reasons I don't talk about these often is because it is almost impossible to express what they feel like to someone who hasn't had a similar experience.




I have been trying to say the unsayable for years. I'm a glutton for punishment - I keep trying.


Jun 26, 2009 -- 7:13PM, whirlinggal wrote:


I appreciate your patience while I struggle for adequate words,




Short of a Vulcan Mind Meld, I doubt if anything is adequate to the task.


 

Standard Disclaimer: This is just my 2cents worth.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2009 - 1:22AM #12
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,784

Jun 26, 2009 -- 7:58PM, Neomonist wrote:


Jun 26, 2009 -- 1:26PM, williejhonlo wrote:


Hi neo, if their is no "who" or "what" how can these terms exist in language? Since who or what refers to objects they just can't be ideas.




They exist because we humans communicate via language. Is there an intrinsic object 'tree' or does the word stand for an idea?- Yes, of course we humans communicate through language, but lets not forget we are talking about "something" or "someone" or maybe just ourselves, therefore language needs subject and object to function.


Jun 26, 2009 -- 1:26PM, williejhonlo wrote:


You ask what is the soul, the soul is the knower and enjoyer, and the body and mind are the two bodies that it knows and enjoys.




Is this triadism of soul and body and mind logical or existential?- All three have their own natures, it is the soul though that has an transcendental nature.


 




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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2009 - 9:51AM #13
Neomonist
Posts: 2,705

Neo -They exist because we humans communicate via language. Is there an intrinsic object 'tree' or does the word stand for an idea?


williejhonlo -Yes, of course we humans communicate through language, but lets not forget we are talking about "something" or "someone" or maybe just ourselves, therefore language needs subject and object to function.


Language needs subject and object, not Reality.


Neo -Is this triadism of soul and body and mind logical or existential?


williejhonlo - All three have their own natures, it is the soul though that has an transcendental nature.


This may be linguistically valid, but is it an existential truth? 


 

Standard Disclaimer: This is just my 2cents worth.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2009 - 11:38AM #14
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,784

Jun 27, 2009 -- 9:51AM, Neomonist wrote:


Neo -They exist because we humans communicate via language. Is there an intrinsic object 'tree' or does the word stand for an idea?


williejhonlo -Yes, of course we humans communicate through language, but lets not forget we are talking about "something" or "someone" or maybe just ourselves, therefore language needs subject and object to function.


Language needs subject and object, not Reality.-- whatever we talk about depends on all three.


Neo -Is this triadism of soul and body and mind logical or existential?


williejhonlo - All three have their own natures, it is the soul though that has an transcendental nature.


This may be linguistically valid, but is it an existential truth? -- Yes, because we are conditioned by nature means that the soul is not fashioned from it, because to become conditioned means it would have to be distinct from nature. Conditioning implies that the soul is imposed upon by nature.


 




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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2009 - 6:50PM #15
Neomonist
Posts: 2,705

Neo - Language needs subject and object, not Reality.


williejhonlo - whatever we talk about depends on all three.


Is there an intrinsic thing called 'subject' and an intrinsic thing called 'object'? Reality is intrinsic, but I doubt if it can be labeled either 'subjective' or 'objective'.


Neo - Is this triadism of soul and body and mind logical or existential?


williejhonlo - All three have their own natures, it is the soul though that has an transcendental nature.


Neo - This may be linguistically valid, but is it an existential truth? 


williejhonlo - Yes, because we are conditioned by nature means that the soul is not fashioned from it, because to become conditioned means it would have to be distinct from nature. Conditioning implies that the soul is imposed upon by nature.


I see neither a soul - nature nor a mind - soul dualism. Mind is just another way of talking about soul as far as I'm concerned. The way I see it is a mind/nature unity.

Standard Disclaimer: This is just my 2cents worth.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2009 - 7:40PM #16
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,784

Jun 27, 2009 -- 6:50PM, Neomonist wrote:


Neo - Language needs subject and object, not Reality.


williejhonlo - whatever we talk about depends on all three.


Is there an intrinsic thing called 'subject' and an intrinsic thing called 'object'? Reality is intrinsic, but I doubt if it can be labeled either 'subjective' or 'objective'.-- Just to talk about reality makes it a subject to be discussed. Also, since we can never fully understand it due to limited senses makes it objective as well. I mean, neither you or me can say we are the basis of it, just a part of it.


Neo - Is this triadism of soul and body and mind logical or existential?


williejhonlo - All three have their own natures, it is the soul though that has an transcendental nature.


Neo - This may be linguistically valid, but is it an existential truth? 


williejhonlo - Yes, because we are conditioned by nature means that the soul is not fashioned from it, because to become conditioned means it would have to be distinct from nature. Conditioning implies that the soul is imposed upon by nature.


I see neither a soul - nature nor a mind - soul dualism. Mind is just another way of talking about soul as far as I'm concerned. The way I see it is a mind/nature unity.



It is said that the mind can be our best friend, and our greatest enemy as well. Friend and enemy to who? answer, our very self

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2009 - 7:50PM #17
Neomonist
Posts: 2,705

Jun 27, 2009 -- 7:40PM, williejhonlo wrote:


It is said that the mind can be our best friend, and our greatest enemy as well. Friend and enemy to who? answer, our very self





Very true.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2009 - 7:00AM #18
Shamanmystic
Posts: 620

Neo Smile You ever hear of the Wanderling? Here's some links for your reading pleasure...


Death of the EGO a Buddhist view  /  The Spectre of Death in shamanism and ZEN   /


Sudden or Gradual Enlightenment  /  Fear in Enlightenment and ZEN


"The first enemy of a man of knowledge is Fear. A terrible enemy--treacherous, and difficult to overcome. It remains concealed at every turn of the way, prowling, waiting. And if the man, terrified in its presence, runs away, his enemy will have put an end to his quest. Once a man has vanquished fear, he is free from it for the rest of his life because, instead of fear, he has acquired clarity of mind which erases fear." - THE TEACHINGS OF DON JUAN: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2009 - 7:24AM #19
Neomonist
Posts: 2,705

Aug 7, 2009 -- 7:00AM, Shamanmystic wrote:


Neo  You ever hear of the Wanderling? Here's some links for your reading pleasure...


Death of the EGO a Buddhist view  /  The Spectre of Death in shamanism and ZEN   /


Sudden or Gradual Enlightenment  /  Fear in Enlightenment and ZEN


"The first enemy of a man of knowledge is Fear. A terrible enemy--treacherous, and difficult to overcome. It remains concealed at every turn of the way, prowling, waiting. And if the man, terrified in its presence, runs away, his enemy will have put an end to his quest. Once a man has vanquished fear, he is free from it for the rest of his life because, instead of fear, he has acquired clarity of mind which erases fear." - THE TEACHINGS OF DON JUAN: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge





Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2009 - 1:42PM #20
RaymondSigrist
Posts: 578

Aug 7, 2009 -- 7:00AM, Shamanmystic wrote:


Neo Smile You ever hear of the Wanderling? Here's some links for your reading pleasure...


Death of the EGO a Buddhist view  /  The Spectre of Death in shamanism and ZEN   /


Sudden or Gradual Enlightenment  /  Fear in Enlightenment and ZEN


"The first enemy of a man of knowledge is Fear. A terrible enemy--treacherous, and difficult to overcome. It remains concealed at every turn of the way, prowling, waiting. And if the man, terrified in its presence, runs away, his enemy will have put an end to his quest. Once a man has vanquished fear, he is free from it for the rest of his life because, instead of fear, he has acquired clarity of mind which erases fear." - THE TEACHINGS OF DON JUAN: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge





What I like is Don Juan next says you have to defeat clarity.  Laozi: Know the white but keep to the black.  知其白,守其黑

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