Neo and anyone else interested in discussing the Afterlife using words--

I think we were discussing the different between OBEs and NDEs--is that where we were when that thread got interrupted?

The popular image of Hindu reincarnation is that of individual souls traversing the Wheel of Life, while Buddhist Transmigration denies the concept of individual soul . The difference I see between the two approaches is the Hindu approach pays attention to the Actor while the Buddhist approach pays attention to the action. While the Hindu campfire story of all this being the dream of -O- makes perfect sense, we need to realize this is a story told in the Language of the Heart. The Buddhist campfire story of mutual dependence makes sense as well, but it is a story told in the Language of the Mind.

Who and/or What is it that transmigrates? There is no "Who" that experiences Transmigration and there is no "What" that Transmigrates. Tathata is what is transmigrating and Sunyata is what transmigrates. As Nagarjuna says: "Things derive their being and nature by mutual dependence and are nothing in themselves." Concepts are regarded as things. "Who" is a concept one can wrap their mind around. "What" is a concept one can wrap their mind around. Talk about 'who' is just that, talk. Talk about 'what' is just that, talk. They are ways to talk about Reality, they are not Reality Itself. This does not, however, mean that talking about them is useless as humans communicate through the use of symbols. Our problem is that we confuse the Symbol for the Reality and as a result make idols out of ideas.

whirlinggal

>Neo--hi--I've been trying to figure out how to experess what an OBE is in as understandable a way as possible. It's not as easy as it first might seem.

I understand. I've been attempting to make the mystical understandable for a long time.

>However--here's my first stab at it--an out of body experience ca be on purpose/intentional or it can be spontaneous. Basically it consists of the spirit/vital energy travelling outside the physical body and then coming back to re-join the physical body. Many people engage in intentional OBEs on a regular basis--Shamanic Journeying is a good example of an OBE. It can be quite spectacular or it can be almost mundane.

Same as with mystical experience. One could almost say that by 'forgetting' the body, one is having a form of OBE. There are experiences that are as subtle as a sledge hammer upside the back of the head or as simple as "Oh yeah."

>Does that make sense to you? Are there things I've said that don't make sense? Ask and I'll do my best to answer.

I did some mining in this dusty ole memory of mine and remembered an echat I had with a person who did remote viewing for a certain agency.

whirlinggal

>Mystical experiences and intentional  (non NDE among other) OBEs don't feel the same IMO.

That's why I qualified it with 'almost'. It was an analogy in the loosest sense of the term. One consequence of my mysticism is that I sometimes blurt out headlines - sometimes it feels like I have a mystical version of Tourettes Syndrome.

>And Remote Viewing doesn't feel like a mystical experience nor much like an intentional OBE (IE Shamanic Journey for example).

She talked about them as OBE, but this was over 20 years ago. I could be misremembering.

Jun 26, 2009 -- 9:43AM, Neomonist wrote:

whirlinggal

>Mystical experiences and intentional  (non NDE among other) OBEs don't feel the same IMO.

That's why I qualified it with 'almost'. It was an analogy in the loosest sense of the term. One consequence of my mysticism is that I sometimes blurt out headlines - sometimes it feels like I have a mystical version of Tourettes Syndrome.

>And Remote Viewing doesn't feel like a mystical experience nor much like an intentional OBE (IE Shamanic Journey for example).

She talked about them as OBE, but this was over 20 years ago. I could be misremembering.

Neo-hi.

I've been trying since I last posted to come up with a good description of how Remote Viewing feels and how it feels different from other intentional experiences like intentional Shamanic work etc.

At this point I have to say that one of the reasons I don't talk about these often is because it is almost impossible to express what they feel like to someone who hasn't had a similar experience.

Ditto for journeying which can feel many different ways--each one could almost be considered unique.

I appreciate your patience while I struggle for adequate words,