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Switch to Forum Live View Genuine Spirituality
5 years ago  ::  Sep 17, 2009 - 8:03PM #1
soma77
Posts: 256

Adoration of God without strength of character is like a drug, but with development of oneself and adoration, God endows one with an almost super-human quality. That is why it is important to do spiritual practice individually besides collectively so one doesn’t have to depend on what others dictate and can experience different spiritual states alone. The realization of God is a personal experience for anyone who is receptive to the spiritual inflow of consciousness so there is no need to think that conscious opinions are more important than virtue. The higher  layers of the mind enable one to discriminate and communicate with the soul, receiving a direct answer from it.

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5 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2010 - 4:46PM #2
Namchuck
Posts: 11,274

I wonder if genuine spirituality has anything at all to do with the elaborate wishful thinking of many of its advocates, especially considering that personal experience is no guarantee of truth.


To me, genuine spirituality is the relationship of one's conciousness to the cosmos in so far as our science has revealed it.

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5 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2010 - 8:11PM #3
Dragonflys
Posts: 195

What about being so attuned with our thoughts , as to be thoughtful ?? Every thought or emotion or word produces a strong vibration in every cell of the body
and leaves a strong impression there.{{{If you know the method of raising an opposite thought,}}} then you can lead a happy
harmonious life of peace and power. Thought of love will at once neutralize a thought of hatred. A thought of courage will immediately serve as a powerful antidote against a thought of fear.How magical it must be to be genuinely spiritual,,I think in the age to be we will be more attuned with nature and the nature of ourselves.

BLUE SKY DREAMS
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 30, 2011 - 8:22PM #4
trudging
Posts: 159

Sep 17, 2009 -- 8:03PM, soma77 wrote:


Adoration of God without strength of character is like a drug, but with development of oneself and adoration, God endows one with an almost super-human quality. That is why it is important to do spiritual practice individually besides collectively so one doesn’t have to depend on what others dictate and can experience different spiritual states alone. The realization of God is a personal experience for anyone who is receptive to the spiritual inflow of consciousness so there is no need to think that conscious opinions are more important than virtue. The higher  layers of the mind enable one to discriminate and communicate with the soul, receiving a direct answer from it.





I agree with every word, but... its not as usefull to the non believer , or those who would benefit the most from a spiritual way of life. Because you speak in a sort of spiritual code, its fine for those of us who know but , as a former atheist, its like a foreign language.


I know exactly what you mean but a few yrs ago...theres no way I could have grasped it.


I believe looking for God anywhere but within will never lead to an experience.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 30, 2011 - 8:45PM #5
trudging
Posts: 159

Jan 2, 2010 -- 4:46PM, Namchuck wrote:


I wonder if genuine spirituality has anything at all to do with the elaborate wishful thinking of many of its advocates, especially considering that personal experience is no guarantee of truth.





You may have to define truth, Fact and truth are not the same thing, I believe an infinite number of facts do not necessarily lead to the doorstep of truth.


for me its a changed life, there would be no benefit to a spiritual way of life if my life wasn't changed and benefitted. A changed life is something real, wishful thinking resulting in a changed life might have more to do with luck, but when a person is destroying their own life they need something better than luck because they are doing it to themself and will continue on that destructive course until interrupted. Telling someone to quit being crazy doesn't work if they consider themselves to not be crazy. They don't see themselves.


The purpose of a life based on spiritual principles is ,ultimately, to be free from fear.


I fail to see how limiting the source of spirituality to verifiable objective reality can do this, it would be quite a stunt.


Those whose lives are restored by spiritual means have gone through a process where they learned they are beyond human assistance, they need something beyond which science is capable.


Jan 2, 2010 -- 4:46PM, Namchuck wrote:


To me, genuine spirituality is the relationship of one's conciousness to the cosmos in so far as our science has revealed it.




Considering science is only a recent development , that would be limiting.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 30, 2011 - 10:03PM #6
Namchuck
Posts: 11,274

Sep 30, 2011 -- 8:45PM, trudging wrote:


Jan 2, 2010 -- 4:46PM, Namchuck wrote:


I wonder if genuine spirituality has anything at all to do with the elaborate wishful thinking of many of its advocates, especially considering that personal experience is no guarantee of truth.





You may have to define truth, Fact and truth are not the same thing, I believe an infinite number of facts do not necessarily lead to the doorstep of truth.


Truth for me would be the degree to which a statement corresponds with reality and logic. Reality is that which is directly perceived through our natural senses, or directly ascertained through the proper use of reason.


for me its a changed life, there would be no benefit to a spiritual way of life if my life wasn't changed and benefitted. A changed life is something real, wishful thinking resulting in a changed life might have more to do with luck, but when a person is destroying their own life they need something better than luck because they are doing it to themself and will continue on that destructive course until interrupted. Telling someone to quit being crazy doesn't work if they consider themselves to not be crazy. They don't see themselves.


Lives can be changed without the need to embrace unjustified beliefs. It happens all the time.


The purpose of a life based on spiritual principles is ,ultimately, to be free from fear.


I think the spiritual life involves more than just being free from fear. The trouble is that the word 'spiritual' is now largely circumscribed by a largely gaseous domain of pious-sounding verbiage.


I fail to see how limiting the source of spirituality to verifiable objective reality can do this, it would be quite a stunt.


That would all depend on what one considered the "source" of spirituality to be, wouldn't it?


Those whose lives are restored by spiritual means have gone through a process where they learned they are beyond human assistance, they need something beyond which science is capable.


Frankly, I think that is balderdash and little more than an excuse to surrender to a fantasy, a craven act of shifting responsibility for one's life to someone or something else. It's the search for some sort of spiritual dole system.


Jan 2, 2010 -- 4:46PM, Namchuck wrote:


To me, genuine spirituality is the relationship of one's conciousness to the cosmos in so far as our science has revealed it.




Considering science is only a recent development , that would be limiting.


Modern medicine is also a rather recent development, too. Would you suggest that it is "limiting" compared to the sorts of primitive medicine practiced before the modern era?





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3 years ago  ::  Oct 01, 2011 - 1:47AM #7
soma77
Posts: 256

Many people have a feeling of unity. I think even atheists have these feelings but do not call them spiritual. There is not need to change them or their vocabulary and hopefully they have no reason to try to stop people from being open enough to have an experience of unity just because they call it spiritual.

No religious explanation is necessary. We live in the universe and are a part and parcel of it. We are  part of the life cycle, the water cycle and the nitrogen cycle. We are related to everything on earth as our atoms are exchanged regularly. May we all enjoy the experience no matter what we call it. The experience speaks for itself, there is no need to sell it.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 01, 2011 - 2:37AM #8
Namchuck
Posts: 11,274

Oct 1, 2011 -- 1:47AM, soma77 wrote:


Many people have a feeling of unity. I think even atheists have these feelings but do not call them spiritual. There is not need to change them or their vocabulary and hopefully they have no reason to try to stop people from being open enough to have an experience of unity just because they call it spiritual.

No religious explanation is necessary. We live in the universe and are a part and parcel of it. We are  part of the life cycle, the water cycle and the nitrogen cycle. We are related to everything on earth as our atoms are exchanged regularly. May we all enjoy the experience no matter what we call it. The experience speaks for itself, there is no need to sell it.




Good post, soma77.


By the way, I'm an atheist and have no reluctance at all in referring to my own feelings of unity with the cosmos as 'spiritual'.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 01, 2011 - 2:39AM #9
trudging
Posts: 159

Sep 30, 2011 -- 10:03PM, Namchuck wrote:


[ Truth for me would be the degree to which a statement corresponds with reality and logic. Reality is that which is directly perceived through our natural senses, or directly ascertained through the proper use of reason.


 Lives can be changed without the need to embrace unjustified beliefs. It happens all the time.


The purpose of a life based on spiritual principles is ,ultimately, to be free from fear.


I think the spiritual life involves more than just being free from fear. The trouble is that the word 'spiritual' is largely a gaseous domain of pious verbiage.


 That would all depend on what one considered the "source" of spirituality to be, wouldn't it?


 Frankly, I think that is balderdash and little more than an excuse to surrender to a fantasy, a craven act of shifting responsibility for one's life to someone or something else. It's the search for some sort of spiritual dole system.


 Modern medicine is also a rather recent development, too. Would you suggest that it is "limiting" compared to the sorts of primitive medicine practiced before the modern era?





There is a truth beyond objectively verifiable, any search for truth eventually ends on a path to what people call God.


Try changing an addicts life, you will find there are problem far bigger than yourself and science has no answer but spirituality does.


All human spiritual problems arise from fear, so freedom from fear through spiritual means is the solution. If spiritual means something else to you, try wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality


I don't see any confusion with the word at all, it means what it says, its about spirit.


The "source" of spirituality, I think you mean where it gets its power?, well people call it God. God is spirit and has all Power when it comes to things spirit, keep it simple. I've seen former atheists who use other terms such as universal intelligence or Great Reality, they're embarassed to say God but that goes away after a while too. Remove God from spirituality and it has no power and you have spiritualism (self powered or through crystals and trinkets but mostly its related to power of self). Spirituality on the other hand is about the reduction of self. With the reduction of self, fear is reduced. In the 14th century a German priest claimed "if a man s emptied of self, he will be filled with God" , they almost burned him at the stake for that because it was true. Was it Luther? I think so.


To those if us with cancer, modern medicine could be a bit more advanced. You're trying to throw me a curve to change the line of thought here, my point was its very limiting to restrict spiritual belief to that which has been scientifically verified. Thats your choice, why not stand by your choices instead of trying to obfuscate the fact. As a former atheist I've heard ( and used) all the atheist arguments, don't bother.


Try to stay open minded about the fear thing, its true but takes a while to see it, we can rarely observe our own fundamental fear, I'm referring to FEAR as a "state of being" beyond our ability to affect change , not the normal fear of falling off the cliff...that would be more like prudence. We all have those normal fears.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 01, 2011 - 3:15AM #10
Namchuck
Posts: 11,274

Oct 1, 2011 -- 2:39AM, trudging wrote:


Sep 30, 2011 -- 10:03PM, Namchuck wrote:


[ Truth for me would be the degree to which a statement corresponds with reality and logic. Reality is that which is directly perceived through our natural senses, or directly ascertained through the proper use of reason.


 Lives can be changed without the need to embrace unjustified beliefs. It happens all the time.


The purpose of a life based on spiritual principles is ,ultimately, to be free from fear.


I think the spiritual life involves more than just being free from fear. The trouble is that the word 'spiritual' is largely a gaseous domain of pious verbiage.


 That would all depend on what one considered the "source" of spirituality to be, wouldn't it?


 Frankly, I think that is balderdash and little more than an excuse to surrender to a fantasy, a craven act of shifting responsibility for one's life to someone or something else. It's the search for some sort of spiritual dole system.


 Modern medicine is also a rather recent development, too. Would you suggest that it is "limiting" compared to the sorts of primitive medicine practiced before the modern era?





There is a truth beyond objectively verifiable, any search for truth eventually ends on a path to what people call God.


Perhaps there is truth beyond the objectively verifiable, but it's simply not true that the search for truth ends up with what people call "God".


Try changing an addicts life, you will find there are problem far bigger than yourself and science has no answer but spirituality does.


I know many addicts whose lives have been changed who did not need to embrace unjustified notions in order to do so.


All human spiritual problems arise from fear, so freedom from fear through spiritual means is the solution. If spiritual means something else to you, try wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality


I don't need wikipedia to define or tell me what spirituality is. I pity the poor trudge who needs to resort to that expedient.


I don't see any confusion with the word at all, it means what it says, its about spirit.


Are you sure about that? 


The "source" of spirituality, I think you mean where it gets its power?, well people call it God.


Some people call it 'God'. Others have jettisoned the notion on the basis that there is no evidence for such a thing, and their spirituality is no less genuine or sincere as a result of it.


God is spirit and has all Power when it comes to things spirit, keep it simple.


That's simply a belief, and one only believes when one doesn't know.


I've seen former atheists who use other terms such as universal intelligence or Great Reality,


Most atheists have no need for such referents.


they're embarassed to say God but that goes away after a while too.


I don't think you know many atheists. But I would agree that, for atheists who have come out of a religious background, the conditioning takes a little time to wear off.


Remove God from spirituality and it has no power and you have spiritualism (self powered or through crystals and trinkets but mostly its related to power of self).


Abject and speculative nonsense. Some atheist scientists, for instance, are the most spiritual people I know. Spirituality doesn't require that one believe or espouse insupportable notions.


Spirituality on the other hand is about the reduction of self. With the reduction of self, fear is reduced. In the 14th century a German priest claimed "if a man s emptied of self, he will be filled with God" , they almost burned him at the stake for that because it was true. Was it Luther? I think so.


Oh yes, the very spiritual Luther. Now, what did he say should happen to the Jews? Ever read any of his anti-Semitic tracts?


To those if us with cancer, modern medicine could be a bit more advanced. You're trying to throw me a curve to change the line of thought here, my point was its very limiting to restrict spiritual belief to that which has been scientifically verified. Thats your choice, why not stand by your choices instead of trying to obfuscate the fact. As a former atheist I've heard ( and used) all the atheist arguments, don't bother.


You're joking, of course. Go back a couple of centuries and read about the death toll from diseases that hardly exist any longer because of modern medicine. And I'm not the one who is restricting spirituality. It is you who is accomplishing that by linking spirituality to mere, and unjustified, beliefs.


Try to stay open minded about the fear thing, its true but takes a while to see it, we can rarely observe our own fundamental fear, I'm referring to FEAR as a "state of being" beyond our ability to affect change , not the normal fear of falling off the cliff...that would be more like prudence. We all have those normal fears.


And maybe you are just projecting your own limited experience with fear onto everyone else. It can just as easily be shown that fear is one of the major motivations for people to seek the panacea of religious belief to escape them. But fear is better faced and conquered than merely aneasthetized with silly beliefs. 





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