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Switch to Forum Live View Separating the wheat from the chaff
6 years ago  ::  Nov 08, 2008 - 1:49PM #1
wonderment
Posts: 580
As we walk our spiritual walk how do we go about separating the wheat from the chaff?  Oftentimes we find ourselves saying things like "I go with my gut.", or "that resonates or simply sounds right to me" but where does that intuition come from and how much do we trust it?  How much do we trust ourselves?  How do we know that we are moving in a direction that is right for us?
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 08, 2008 - 2:20PM #2
Chiyo
Posts: 5,799

wonderment wrote:

How do we know that we are moving in a direction that is right for us?



When our relationships with other people are healthy and uplifting. When our relationships with nature and the earth are healthy and constructive. And when we are able to go to sleep with a clear conscience and wake up and look in the mirror and see ourselves with pride (not arrogance, but satisfaction)... This is how we know we're moving in a good direction. We only know ourselves through our relationships with others.

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6 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2008 - 11:59AM #3
wonderment
Posts: 580

Chiyo wrote:

We only know ourselves through our relationships with others.



HiChiyo, I too think the way we relate to others, and all things, has everything to do with the quality of our lives as we live them out. The way we view things and how we see ourselves in relation to them is what determines how we interact with them. So much of the journey depends on the view.

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6 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2008 - 1:05PM #4
wonderment
Posts: 580
Here's some good stuff concerning "right view" from a Buddhist perspective taken from "Each Moment Is the Universe" by Dainin Katagiri:

"Buddha said that to follow this path [Eightfold Noble Path] and experience liberation from suffering, first we have to see in the proper way and then we have to think in the proper way. Then he explained how we can liberate ourselves through the activities of speech, conduct, livelihood, effort, having a calm mind based on meditation, and concentrating the human life force. Buddha put seeing and thinking first, because to live in peace and harmony we have to see and think about life in the proper way.

"When you see in the proper way, what do you see? You see the true nature of time. In Japanese we say mujo. Mu is 'nothing' and jo is 'permanence,' so mujo means 'no permanence' or 'impermanence.' Seeing impermanence is not to face a kind of nihilism that leads to despair; it is to become yourself, as you really are, with joyful open eyes. Thinking in the proper way is not to understand life through your intellect; it is to contemplate deeply how to live every day based on wisdom. When you see the true nature of time and understand how impermance works in your life, you can use time to cultivate your life and to keep up with the tempo of life without feeling despair. That is the basis of a complete way of human life."

Again and again we come back to the necessity of finding out for ourselves.  We have to "touch" impermance for ourselves, not just see it as a concept.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2008 - 3:39PM #5
Nico1089
Posts: 406
[QUOTE=wonderment;881910]As we walk our spiritual walk how do we go about separating the wheat from the chaff?  Oftentimes we find ourselves saying things like "I go with my gut.", or "that resonates or simply sounds right to me" but where does that intuition come from and how much do we trust it?  How much do we trust ourselves?  How do we know that we are moving in a direction that is right for us?[/QUOTE]

hi folks, i do not trust myself at all. If i seem to want to go with my gut it usually means i am hungry for something. Intuition resonates too much with "nature" and self-preservation, so i don't trust it either. The touchstone of discrimination is the love of god, usually the opposite of self-advantage. If love of god is there, we are always moving in the right direction--all things will work for the good. The good of all, not what seems best for self at the time. We cannot decide by "what is best for me" without putting ourselves before god, and that would mean leaving the spiritual path.--nicolo
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2008 - 6:32PM #6
Chiyo
Posts: 5,799

Originally Posted by Chiyo
We only know ourselves through our relationships with others.



nico1089 wrote:

hi folks, i do not trust myself at all. If i seem to want to go with my gut it usually means i am hungry for something. Intuition resonates too much with "nature" and self-preservation, so i don't trust it either. The touchstone of discrimination is the love of god, usually the opposite of self-advantage. If love of god is there, we are always moving in the right direction--all things will work for the good. The good of all, not what seems best for self at the time. We cannot decide by "what is best for me" without putting ourselves before god, and that would mean leaving the spiritual path.--nicolo



Which just goes to show that what I'd said was true, we only know ourselves through our relationships with others - god is other and you know yourself through relationship with him.

We cannot decide by "what is best for me" without putting ourselves before god, and that would mean leaving the spiritual path.--nicolo



Not true. Buddhists don't believe in a Creator-god or an omni-omni god, yet we are most certainly spiritual.

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6 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2008 - 6:46PM #7
Chiyo
Posts: 5,799

wonderment wrote:

Here's some good stuff concerning "right view" from a Buddhist perspective taken from "Each Moment Is the Universe" by Dainin Katagiri:

"Buddha said that to follow this path [Eightfold Noble Path] and experience liberation from suffering, first we have to see in the proper way and then we have to think in the proper way. Then he explained how we can liberate ourselves through the activities of speech, conduct, livelihood, effort, having a calm mind based on meditation, and concentrating the human life force. Buddha put seeing and thinking first, because to live in peace and harmony we have to see and think about life in the proper way.

"When you see in the proper way, what do you see? You see the true nature of time. In Japanese we say mujo. Mu is 'nothing' and jo is 'permanence,' so mujo means 'no permanence' or 'impermanence.' Seeing impermanence is not to face a kind of nihilism that leads to despair; it is to become yourself, as you really are, with joyful open eyes. Thinking in the proper way is not to understand life through your intellect; it is to contemplate deeply how to live every day based on wisdom. When you see the true nature of time and understand how impermance works in your life, you can use time to cultivate your life and to keep up with the tempo of life without feeling despair. That is the basis of a complete way of human life."

Again and again we come back to the necessity of finding out for ourselves. We have to "touch" impermance for ourselves, not just see it as a concept.




Gassho. Thanks very much for sharing that. On a related note, Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh teaches that we see Mu, Emptiness within Interdependent Origination;


[QUOTE]
[B][FONT=Book Antiqua]If you are a poet, you will see clearly that there is a cloud floating in this sheet of paper. Without a cloud there will be no water; without water the trees cannot grow; and without trees, you cannot make paper. So the cloud is in here. The existence of this page is dependent on the existence of a cloud. Paper and cloud are so close. Let us think of other things, like sunshine. Sunshine is very important because the forest cannot grow without sunshine, and we as humans cannot grow without sunshine. So the logger needs sunshine in order to cut the tree, and the tree needs sunshine in order to be a tree. Therefore, you can see sunshine in this sheet of paper. And if you look deeply, with the eyes of a bodhisattva, with the eyes of those who are awake, you see not only the cloud and the sunshine in it, but that everything is here, the wheat that became the bread for the logger to eat, the logger's father--everything is in this sheet of paper...



This paper is empty of an independent self. Empty, in this sense, means that the paper is full of everything, the entire cosmos. The presence of this tiny sheet of paper proves the presence of the whole cosmos.

- Thich Nhat Hanh
[/QUOTE][/FONT][/B]

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6 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2008 - 3:39PM #8
Nico1089
Posts: 406
[QUOTE=wonderment;881910]As we walk our spiritual walk how do we go about separating the wheat from the chaff?  Oftentimes we find ourselves saying things like "I go with my gut.", or "that resonates or simply sounds right to me" but where does that intuition come from and how much do we trust it?  How much do we trust ourselves?  How do we know that we are moving in a direction that is right for us?[/QUOTE]

hi folks, i do not trust myself at all. If i seem to want to go with my gut it usually means i am hungry for something. Intuition resonates too much with "nature" and self-preservation, so i don't trust it either. The touchstone of discrimination is the love of god, usually the opposite of self-advantage. If love of god is there, we are always moving in the right direction--all things will work for the good. The good of all, not what seems best for self at the time. We cannot decide by "what is best for me" without putting ourselves before god, and that would mean leaving the spiritual path.--nicolo
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2008 - 6:32PM #9
Chiyo
Posts: 5,799

Originally Posted by Chiyo
We only know ourselves through our relationships with others.



nico1089 wrote:

hi folks, i do not trust myself at all. If i seem to want to go with my gut it usually means i am hungry for something. Intuition resonates too much with "nature" and self-preservation, so i don't trust it either. The touchstone of discrimination is the love of god, usually the opposite of self-advantage. If love of god is there, we are always moving in the right direction--all things will work for the good. The good of all, not what seems best for self at the time. We cannot decide by "what is best for me" without putting ourselves before god, and that would mean leaving the spiritual path.--nicolo



Which just goes to show that what I'd said was true, we only know ourselves through our relationships with others - god is other and you know yourself through relationship with him.

We cannot decide by "what is best for me" without putting ourselves before god, and that would mean leaving the spiritual path.--nicolo



Not true. Buddhists don't believe in a Creator-god or an omni-omni god, yet we are most certainly spiritual.

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2008 - 6:46PM #10
Chiyo
Posts: 5,799

wonderment wrote:

Here's some good stuff concerning "right view" from a Buddhist perspective taken from "Each Moment Is the Universe" by Dainin Katagiri:

"Buddha said that to follow this path [Eightfold Noble Path] and experience liberation from suffering, first we have to see in the proper way and then we have to think in the proper way. Then he explained how we can liberate ourselves through the activities of speech, conduct, livelihood, effort, having a calm mind based on meditation, and concentrating the human life force. Buddha put seeing and thinking first, because to live in peace and harmony we have to see and think about life in the proper way.

"When you see in the proper way, what do you see? You see the true nature of time. In Japanese we say mujo. Mu is 'nothing' and jo is 'permanence,' so mujo means 'no permanence' or 'impermanence.' Seeing impermanence is not to face a kind of nihilism that leads to despair; it is to become yourself, as you really are, with joyful open eyes. Thinking in the proper way is not to understand life through your intellect; it is to contemplate deeply how to live every day based on wisdom. When you see the true nature of time and understand how impermance works in your life, you can use time to cultivate your life and to keep up with the tempo of life without feeling despair. That is the basis of a complete way of human life."

Again and again we come back to the necessity of finding out for ourselves. We have to "touch" impermance for ourselves, not just see it as a concept.




Gassho. Thanks very much for sharing that. On a related note, Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh teaches that we see Mu, Emptiness within Interdependent Origination;


[QUOTE]
[B][FONT=Book Antiqua]If you are a poet, you will see clearly that there is a cloud floating in this sheet of paper. Without a cloud there will be no water; without water the trees cannot grow; and without trees, you cannot make paper. So the cloud is in here. The existence of this page is dependent on the existence of a cloud. Paper and cloud are so close. Let us think of other things, like sunshine. Sunshine is very important because the forest cannot grow without sunshine, and we as humans cannot grow without sunshine. So the logger needs sunshine in order to cut the tree, and the tree needs sunshine in order to be a tree. Therefore, you can see sunshine in this sheet of paper. And if you look deeply, with the eyes of a bodhisattva, with the eyes of those who are awake, you see not only the cloud and the sunshine in it, but that everything is here, the wheat that became the bread for the logger to eat, the logger's father--everything is in this sheet of paper...



This paper is empty of an independent self. Empty, in this sense, means that the paper is full of everything, the entire cosmos. The presence of this tiny sheet of paper proves the presence of the whole cosmos.

- Thich Nhat Hanh
[/QUOTE][/FONT][/B]

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