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6 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2008 - 12:46AM #11
LilyRoze
Posts: 183

mountainclimber24 wrote:



The spiritual life is like a journey.  There are deserts of agnosticism, oasis of zeal, meadows of contentment.  There's nothing wrong with spending time in the desert.

Peace be with you.






Not to step on your belief system or anything, but I'd just like to take this opportunity to point out that, although I understand the value of putting the most positive spin on that sentiment, it's also instructive to not forget, that some people never make it out of the desert. There are plenty of bleached bones out there, staring up at the sky. And some of those journeys were cut short intentionally, if you get my meaning. Contrary to pop belief, the Good Lord really does give some people more than they can bear. Happens all the time.


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6 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2008 - 1:38PM #12
spiritalk
Posts: 1,165
Perhaps you missed....
The spiritual life is like a journey.  from mountain's post.

When you journey, you don't lie down and let the world trampel all over you - you move in whatever direction the wind blows for some, and for others it is a defined direction.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2008 - 6:07PM #13
LilyRoze
Posts: 183

spiritalk wrote:

Perhaps you missed....
The spiritual life is like a journey. from mountain's post.

When you journey, you don't lie down and let the world trampel all over you - you move in whatever direction the wind blows for some, and for others it is a defined direction.





no, I didn't miss it. I quoted it in my post.

I'm going to ignore the fact that you ignored my main point; which is that, journey or no, there are those who don't make it out of the desert.

Pretty good object lesson as to how these metaphors for the inner life fall off a cliff if you try to take them too far. You can say "you don't lie down and let the world trampel all over you" , but once again, all you're saying, in effect, to those who did fail - and don't deny that they exist - that if they did, it was because they did lay down and let the world trample all over them. In other words; it was their own damn fault.

I don't see what gives you the right to make that judgement on other people based on what you can do.


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6 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2008 - 2:52PM #14
Paravani
Posts: 797
Hello, All!

Hi, LilyRoze!

LilyRoze wrote:


I don't see what gives you the right to make that judgement on other people based on what you can do.



Hmm...  What I hear in your posts is a lot of anger, and a lot of projection of blame. 

You must stop blaming yourself for what happened to you -- only then will you be free to stop hearing blame from others, as well.

You will know when you have truly stopped blaming yourself, because then you will also see that no one, not even YOU, has the "right" to decide where you can and cannot go.  All path possibilities are open to you -- you need only lift the blinders you're wearing to see them branching to all sides.

Love and Light and Blessings to all of us!

Claudia

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2008 - 5:26PM #15
LilyRoze
Posts: 183

Paravani wrote:

Hello, All!

Hi, LilyRoze!



Hmm...  What I hear in your posts is a lot of anger, and a lot of projection of blame.






Of course you hear a lot of anger. I'm angry at people who perpetuate this poisonous myth that all you have to do is think Happy Thoughts and any obstacle can be surmounted.

That's a lie. A damned lie, even. And it's not projection of blame. Whether I blame myself for things is irrelevant. What's relevant is that people who perpetuate this myth are doing some serious blaming.

And then getting all wide-eyed and defensive and self-righteous with their "What are you so angry about?" and pretending that  what I'm saying isn't so. At least admit that you blame people for whatever they can't do.  At least be that honest.

So yeah., I guess you could say I'm angry, sure.


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6 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2008 - 9:19PM #16
Paravani
Posts: 797
Hello, All!

Hi again, LilyRoze!

LilyRoze wrote:

Of course you hear a lot of anger. I'm angry at people who perpetuate this poisonous myth that all you have to do is think Happy Thoughts and any obstacle can be surmounted.

That's a lie. A damned lie, even. And it's not projection of blame. Whether I blame myself for things is irrelevant. What's relevant is that people who perpetuate this myth are doing some serious blaming.



It's time to stop giving up your own control, Lily.  You don't always get to choose what happens to you, but you DO get to choose what you do with it.  And whether you feel like choosing to be healthy or not, no one here is going to accept that you "must" stay sick with anger.

Especially not me. 

See, I've been there, done that...  and you know what?  Whatever happened to you, no matter how bad it was, I can guarantee you that what happened to me was a LOT worse than that.  Moreover, I can guarantee you that I was much younger and smaller than you at the time.

So cut the cr*p.  I know EXACTLY what you can and cannot do with what's been given to you...  and sure, giving up, surrendering completely to your anger, is one of your options.  But I know from personal experience that you have many, many more options than you are currently choosing to acknowledge.

Which is why I don't buy the bullsh*t.  Like I said, I've been there, done that...  and got out alive, too.  So can you...  IF you choose.


LilyRoze wrote:

And then getting all wide-eyed and defensive and self-righteous with their "What are you so angry about?" and pretending that  what I'm saying isn't so. At least admit that you blame people for whatever they can't do.  At least be that honest.

So yeah., I guess you could say I'm angry, sure.



Lily, I'm not the wide-eyed innocent here -- you are.  And sorry to say, I'm going to take away yet more of your innocence...  because it isn't doing you a bit of good.

If you are so innocent that you believe you are the only one who has ever been badly hurt, you need to think again. 

Look around you the next time you walk down a street, and count the faces...

One, two, THREE -- THAT one was sexually assaulted as a child.  Four, FIVE, SIX -- THOSE two were beaten or raped in childhood or as adults.  Seven, eight, NINE --THAT one was sexually assaulted as a child.  Ten, ELEVEN, TWELVE -- THOSE two were beaten or raped in childhood or as adults... 

Take a good look at those faces, and repeat as necessary until you come to the end of the street, or until you finally get the message.

Statistically, ALL those people were hurt...   and that's just in the "civilized" country of the USA.  In other countries where violent behavior is more acceptable, the statistical averages are much higher.

The bottom line is, you and I have plenty of company.  Every second person on earth (actually more than that) has felt the same depth of pain at one point in their lives.

And if all those others were walking time bombs, too, this is not a place where I'd want to live.

However, the presence of all those others -- and seeing all of THEM deal with their pain, move beyond blame and into self-forgiveness -- inspires me to move on with my life in loving ways, too, and to be happy.  I hope it will inspire you, too.  If THEY can do it, so can you.

Love and Light and Blessings to all of us!

Claudia

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2008 - 11:16PM #17
Sara333
Posts: 75
Hello friends,

I've been reading this thread with interest, and I agree that bad things happen to everyone, and that it's simplistic to say that all we have to do is think good thoughts and that will fix everything. However, I have discovered in my own journey that God (however you understand God) frequently lets bad things happen to us in order to spur us to spiritual growth. . . . Once we understand this, we can ask God for help while meeting him halfway by undertaking whatever bit of growth is connected to what we're asking him to do for us. If this doesn't make sense, my website, petitioninggod.com, might help.

BTW, I also agree that God is Love! Blessings on all of you!
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2008 - 3:10AM #18
LilyRoze
Posts: 183
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hi, Claudia

Why do you think I’m innocent to those things you mentioned there; did I give you that impression? I don’t usually strike people in that way.

Anyway, they don’t inspire me. I’m not taken by triumph of the human spirit stories, they annoy me. I think too much attention is paid to the winners. And the reason for that is, frankly, the kind of thinking that you explained to me in your post. It’s all well and good to be optimistic, but it’s not good to be unable to even accept the possibility of honest failure, because it messes with your Just World cosmology. The stark truth of it is that sometimes a person’s best isn’t good enough. And any philosophy or ideology or theology or cosmology or sociology that denies that is one that’s based, at best, on a partial truth and a big chunk of lie.


Just your saying “Because I did it I know that you can do it” doesn’t make it automatically so. It’s faulty logic and I think you know that. It’s an emotional argument that has no real rationale. I know; I’m supposed to be inspired by people who have been through hell and come out happy and healthy and on top of things. But why am I supposed to be inspired by them? They aren’t me. Fine; they did whatever they did. That has nothing to do with me. That’s not my experience; it’s theirs. I’m who I am, they’re who they are.


I don’t respond well to Tough Love. I’ve been there done that big time.

Oh; and btw: I don’t think I’m as young as you seem to think I am. This old gal’s got some mileage on her, to be sure.
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