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7 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2007 - 5:12PM #1
stardustpilgrim
Posts: 5,278
This past weekend I found a most excellent new book. It's called the untethered soul, the journey beyond yourself by Michael A Singer. It's the most significant new book I read since The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. It might even be better than Tolle's book. I've read 90 pages so far.

Singer gives a glimpse of what it's like to live through our ordinary self (ego) and also what it's like to live through Self, a deeper consciousness that can "witness" the 'exploits' of our ordinary self. He makes pretty clear the importance of ceasing to live through the narrow constriction of "ego" (something it seems I haven't been to successful getting across here on Mysticism).

He describes the role and process of the Samskaras' in us, that they are stored experiences, energy that has become stuck in us that blocks the flow of energy within ourselves. I'm going to give a short excerpt, and "stuff' refers to these Samskaras.

"Eventually, you become wise enough to realize that you do not want the stuff inside you. It doesn't matter who stimulates it. It doesn't matter what situation hits it. .......... We're really not trying to be free of our stuff; we're trying to justify keeping it.

If you truly want to grow spiritually, you'll realize that keeping your stuff is keeping you trapped. Eventually you'll want out, at any cost. You will then realize that life is actually trying to help you. Life is surrounding you with people and situations that stimulate growth. ........ The stuff that holds you down periodically rears its head. When it does, let it go. You simply permit the pain to come up into your heart and pass through. If you do that, it will pass. ....... There is a law which is an unavoidable truth, when your stuff gets hit, let go right then because it will be harder later. ....... if you want to be free to the core of your being, you must let go right away because it will not be easier later.

.......First, you must be aware that there is something within you that needs to be released. You must then be aware that you, the one who notices the stuff coming up, are distinct from what you're experiencing. You are noticing it, but who are you? This place of centered awareness is the seat of the witness, the seat of the self. That is the only seat from which you can let go. Let's say you notice that something in your heart gets hit. If you let go and stay in the seat of awareness, what you are noticing will pass. If you don't let go, and instead get lost in the disturbed feelings and thoughts that arise, you'll see a sequence of events unfold so quickly you won't know what hit you.

If you don't let go, you'll notice that energy that got stimulated in your heart works like a magnet. It's a phenomenally attractive force that will pull your consciousness into it. The next thing you know YOU WON'T BE THERE. (my emphasis, sdp) ............ Some time later you'll come back and realize that you were TOTALLY LOST in your stuff (again, my emphasis)"........ pages 74, 75

unquote....... You, Self, what can witness, disappears into your STUFF, gets lost in the Samskaras.  This is what I meant earlier when I said (on some thread), we are at least two, that which can watch, and what it watches.
sdp
The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.
Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.
The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

A map is not the territory.                                                                 Alfred Korzybski

God is that function in the world by reason of which our purposes are directed to ends which in our own consciousness are impartial as to our own interests. He is that element in life in virtue of which judgment stretches beyond facts of existence to values of existence.      Alfred North Whitehead
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2007 - 10:59PM #2
Flowupstream
Posts: 244
[QUOTE=stardustpilgrim;86140]unquote....... You, Self, what can witness, disappears into your STUFF, gets lost in the Samskaras.  This is what I meant earlier when I said (on some thread), we are at least two, that which can watch, and what it watches.
sdp[/QUOTE]
Yes my friend,
I understood what you were saying before. And I still say that that which can watch is your ego and the other "stuff" is the collection of "things"(concepts) which it thinks it needs to survive. When it realizes that it needs nothing to survive it becomes unbound and serves the life force itself in all of its incarnations without selfish concern for "me"

kip
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2007 - 11:25PM #3
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
Kip-
[QUOTE]When it realizes that it needs nothing to survive it becomes unbound and serves the life force itself in all of its incarnations without selfish concern for "me"[/QUOTE]

Would you mind "practicaliizing" the above for me?

It sortof reminds me of one of the sayings of the Desert Fathers:

[QUOTE]"It was said of abba John the Dwarf that one day he  said to his elder brother,
"I should like to be  free of all care, like  the angels who do  not work, but
ceaselessly  offer worship to God."  So he took leave of  his brother and went
away  into the desert.  After a week  he  came  back to his brother.   When he
knocked on the door he heard his brother say, "Who are you?" before  he opened
it. He said, "I am John,  your brother."  But he replied,  "John has become an
angel and   henceforth he is  no  longer  among men." Then John  besought him,
saying, "It is I."  However, his brother did not let him in but left him there
in distress until morning. Then, opening the door, he said to him,  "You are a
man and you must once again work in order to eat." Then John made a
prostration before him, saying, "Forgive me."

Abba John said, "A monk is toil. The monk toils in all he does. That is what a
monk is."[/QUOTE]

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2007 - 10:59PM #4
Flowupstream
Posts: 244
[QUOTE=stardustpilgrim;86140]unquote....... You, Self, what can witness, disappears into your STUFF, gets lost in the Samskaras.  This is what I meant earlier when I said (on some thread), we are at least two, that which can watch, and what it watches.
sdp[/QUOTE]
Yes my friend,
I understood what you were saying before. And I still say that that which can watch is your ego and the other "stuff" is the collection of "things"(concepts) which it thinks it needs to survive. When it realizes that it needs nothing to survive it becomes unbound and serves the life force itself in all of its incarnations without selfish concern for "me"

kip
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2007 - 11:25PM #5
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
Kip-
[QUOTE]When it realizes that it needs nothing to survive it becomes unbound and serves the life force itself in all of its incarnations without selfish concern for "me"[/QUOTE]

Would you mind "practicaliizing" the above for me?

It sortof reminds me of one of the sayings of the Desert Fathers:

[QUOTE]"It was said of abba John the Dwarf that one day he  said to his elder brother,
"I should like to be  free of all care, like  the angels who do  not work, but
ceaselessly  offer worship to God."  So he took leave of  his brother and went
away  into the desert.  After a week  he  came  back to his brother.   When he
knocked on the door he heard his brother say, "Who are you?" before  he opened
it. He said, "I am John,  your brother."  But he replied,  "John has become an
angel and   henceforth he is  no  longer  among men." Then John  besought him,
saying, "It is I."  However, his brother did not let him in but left him there
in distress until morning. Then, opening the door, he said to him,  "You are a
man and you must once again work in order to eat." Then John made a
prostration before him, saying, "Forgive me."

Abba John said, "A monk is toil. The monk toils in all he does. That is what a
monk is."[/QUOTE]

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2007 - 8:59AM #6
stardustpilgrim
Posts: 5,278
[QUOTE=flowupstream;86690]Yes my friend,
I understood what you were saying before. And I still say that that which can watch is your ego and the other "stuff" is the collection of "things"(concepts) which it thinks it needs to survive. When it realizes that it needs nothing to survive it becomes unbound and serves the life force itself in all of its incarnations without selfish concern for "me"

kip[/QUOTE]

I guess this means you didn't read Tolle's book The Power of Now either?
sdp
The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.
Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.
The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

A map is not the territory.                                                                 Alfred Korzybski

God is that function in the world by reason of which our purposes are directed to ends which in our own consciousness are impartial as to our own interests. He is that element in life in virtue of which judgment stretches beyond facts of existence to values of existence.      Alfred North Whitehead
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2007 - 11:48AM #7
Flowupstream
Posts: 244
Hatman,
What I'm saying is that, similar to "a monk toils in all he does", a man(no gender bias) works to serve The Life Force OR his selfish desires. When we recognize how little of what we thought was our identity is essential we no longer serve the percieved "need". Man works even in rest. Activity appears to be a major "reason" for physical incarnation.

SDP,
When I read "The Power of Now" I started telling people " This is as close to what I've been trying to say as anything written". The next week or so I read Byron Katies "Loving What IS" and recognize her "The Work" as identical to my inner process which I shared, one on one, for 4 years before starting to speak publicly last year.

The "Awakening" which Tolle and Katie described was similar to each other and "my own". Living a life of relative solitude, and having learned to read as an adult, I dont communicate as well as some might and it often takes some "back and forth" to get ideas across. While I don't disagree with Tolle or Katie I don't take thier words as dogmatic and my own experience is not identical. I participate here on B-net mainly to work on my wrighting skills and to try to put "concepts"(not an adequate word) into print. Here is a link (?) to a story I wrote on a motorcycle forum and the very thoughtful responses we shared after.
http://www.bmwxplor.com/forums/topic/show/1903#new
I have started wrighting a book, but I'm struggling to do it in a way that people won't  view what I say or write as Absolute Truth as your milage may vary.

kip
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2007 - 5:22PM #8
stardustpilgrim
Posts: 5,278
[QUOTE=flowupstream;86690]Yes my friend,
I understood what you were saying before. And I still say that that which can watch is your ego and the other "stuff" is the collection of "things"(concepts) which it thinks it needs to survive. When it realizes that it needs nothing to survive it becomes unbound and serves the life force itself in all of its incarnations without selfish concern for "me"

kip[/QUOTE]

Hello Kip....... This is also a response to # 5......quoting Tolle. "I have little use for the past and rarely think about it, however....Until my thirtieth year, I lived in a state of almost continuous anxiety interspersed with periods of suicidal depression. .....The most loathsome thing of all, however, was my own existence. ...I could feel (that) a deep longing for annihilation.....I cannot live with myself any longer. This was the thought that kept repeating itself in my mind. Then suddenly I became aware of what a peculiar thought it was. Am I one or teo? If I cannot live with myself, there must be two of me: the 'I' and the 'self' that 'I' cannot live with. Maybe, I thought, only one of them is real. (He then describes some further experience, what profoundly happened to him. And this state lasted for five months, and then only to a lesser extent for two years). I knew, of course, that something profoundly significant had happened to me, but I didn't understand it at all.....until several years later.

I understood that the intense pressure of suffering that night must have forced my consciousness to withdraw from its identification with the unhappy and deeply fearful self, which is ultimately a fiction of the mind. This withdrawal must have been so complete that this false, suffering self immediately collapsed, just as if a plug had been pulled out of an inflatable toy. What was left the was my true nature (how many times have I mentioned this? note sdp) as the ever-present I am: consciousness in its pure state prior to identification with form (also mentioned this many times, sdp).  ......from The Power of Now by E. Tolle pages 1-3.

I'm not trying to deny your experience Kip, but this is closer to what I've described and closer to what The Untetherd Soul by M. Singer describes.

I could also quote B. Roberts, Suzanne (name escapes me presently?) and Jan Frazier.

To keep Tolle's analogy, is the "ballon" still there (without the air)? Do these still have memories of their past? Yes. But does that mean that "ego" is still there as before? They all say no. What you say denies THEIR experience.
sdp
The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.
Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.
The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

A map is not the territory.                                                                 Alfred Korzybski

God is that function in the world by reason of which our purposes are directed to ends which in our own consciousness are impartial as to our own interests. He is that element in life in virtue of which judgment stretches beyond facts of existence to values of existence.      Alfred North Whitehead
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2007 - 5:55PM #9
Flowupstream
Posts: 244
[QUOTE=stardustpilgrim;88049]
To keep Tolle's analogy, is the "ballon" still there (without the air)? Do these still have memories of their past? Yes. But does that mean that "ego" is still there as before? They all say no. What you say denies THEIR experience.
sdp[/QUOTE]

OK, now we're getting somewhere my friend,
Yes, of coarse, the memories are still there. The "ballon" was a construct of an error in consciousness(what Ramana Maharshi would call "the first error of consciousnes")  and was never real. However, and what is most important to me; The error of consciousness which caused the "ballon" to be created still functions, It might not be possible to re-inflate the ballon of false identity, but the ideas that "you need to be/do....." are the flow of air towards whats left of the ballon. Much of what you (generic) believe needs to happen to "get you there" is so much hot air trying to inflate the ballon of your "I can fix it" identity. All of the "it needs to be so..."dogma is the seperate "I" self trying to re-establish (IMO). This is why I still need "the work" described by Katie (my own version) We are constantly bombarded with "You need" and "It must be so" statements from everywhere. Do they withstand the scrutiny of the Self Inquiry of Maharshi, or Is it true? Can you know its true? of Katie

kip
BTW; I have NEVER said that ego is still there "as before", but still there none the less. The response to automatically inflate is deminished, but not absent. The "hot air" cant be contained in the ballon like before because it does not withstand the simple tests of "reality". The "trying to fix things" mentality still tries to emerge but is often met with laughter.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2007 - 7:17PM #10
stardustpilgrim
Posts: 5,278
kip
BTW; I have NEVER said that ego is still there "as before", but still there none the less. The response to automatically inflate is deminished, but not absent. The "hot air" cant be contained in the ballon like before because it does not withstand the simple tests of "reality". The "trying to fix things" mentality still tries to emerge but is often met with laughter.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but up in # 2 you said that ego is what can watch. I think this disagrees with everyone's written acount (Tolle, Roberts, Pirsig (oh, I forgot to note the thread I just wrote on Pirsig and quoted him), Jan Frazier, Singer & Suzanne (?).

I believe Robert Pirsig also had this experience of loss of self (ego) as a result of his search for what he called Quality, and this is what he describes in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. But there was nobody around who could help him, knew what was happening to him. So they dragged his ass to a mental hospital and gave him Electroshock "therapy". It took him years to recover what "they" took away.

Kip, I appreciate your perspective, what you write, but .......... I think I'm helping......you put your experience in precise words.......through my feedback......... maybe? ....huh? ....what-ya think? ...... :-)

But I do think I'm understanding you better.....
sdp
The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.
Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.
The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

A map is not the territory.                                                                 Alfred Korzybski

God is that function in the world by reason of which our purposes are directed to ends which in our own consciousness are impartial as to our own interests. He is that element in life in virtue of which judgment stretches beyond facts of existence to values of existence.      Alfred North Whitehead
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