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6 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2007 - 10:19AM #51
Pam34
Posts: 2,638
I must suppose we are talking past each other. Are you saying that 'spirituality' is NOT 'religious'? then what is it? secular?

Spirituality is an aspect of religious behavior - I don't think that is 'just my opinion'. I think it is normal standard everyday opinion, as well.
Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2007 - 3:38PM #52
CLHazz
Posts: 94
To me Holistic Spirituality is what a few posts ago said, whole. It means all encompassing, tying everything together. Nothing is completely independent of the other. You can practice a religion and also practice Holistic Spirituality at the same time. For example, a person can go to their Catholic Church and do some form of divination, be it tarot or I-ching even though the church leaders frown upon that. It's doing something along with whatever you believe in and enhancing the experience at the same time, seeing things in more than one perspective so you see a bigger picture, rather than just tunnel vision. Hope I haven't repeated my self :)
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 01, 2008 - 4:36AM #53
pilahawaiian
Posts: 452
Spirituality Comes from within God's Holy Temple.

Religion comes from the world, the traditions of Men.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 01, 2008 - 9:20AM #54
spiritalk
Posts: 1,165
[QUOTE=Pam34;174010]I must suppose we are talking past each other. Are you saying that 'spirituality' is NOT 'religious'? then what is it? secular?

Spirituality is an aspect of religious behavior - I don't think that is 'just my opinion'. I think it is normal standard everyday opinion, as well.[/QUOTE]


Beating within your own heart is a human urge to spirituality.  It means that with or without a church (building, group, ritual) you have begun your journey of spirituality.  It is a deep part of self that strives to enhance that part of you that is represented by a 'still, small, voice' of spirituality.  Spirituality is just a part of self (body, mind, spirit) expressing in all circumstances of life.

Religion is a manmade concept of God that has been entrenched and worshiped by the followers who attend and follow the party line.  All kinds of rituals and practices have built up around the central core of belief.

Spirituality can be found in religion (but is often lacking) through the traditions and rituals of the church structure.  Spirituality is definitely found within the human being for growth and progress.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 01, 2008 - 4:36AM #55
pilahawaiian
Posts: 452
Spirituality Comes from within God's Holy Temple.

Religion comes from the world, the traditions of Men.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 01, 2008 - 9:20AM #56
spiritalk
Posts: 1,165
[QUOTE=Pam34;174010]I must suppose we are talking past each other. Are you saying that 'spirituality' is NOT 'religious'? then what is it? secular?

Spirituality is an aspect of religious behavior - I don't think that is 'just my opinion'. I think it is normal standard everyday opinion, as well.[/QUOTE]


Beating within your own heart is a human urge to spirituality.  It means that with or without a church (building, group, ritual) you have begun your journey of spirituality.  It is a deep part of self that strives to enhance that part of you that is represented by a 'still, small, voice' of spirituality.  Spirituality is just a part of self (body, mind, spirit) expressing in all circumstances of life.

Religion is a manmade concept of God that has been entrenched and worshiped by the followers who attend and follow the party line.  All kinds of rituals and practices have built up around the central core of belief.

Spirituality can be found in religion (but is often lacking) through the traditions and rituals of the church structure.  Spirituality is definitely found within the human being for growth and progress.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 01, 2008 - 11:43AM #57
Pam34
Posts: 2,638

spiritalk wrote:

Beating within your own heart is a human urge to spirituality.  It means that with or without a church (building, group, ritual) you have begun your journey of spirituality.  It is a deep part of self that strives to enhance that part of you that is represented by a 'still, small, voice' of spirituality.  Spirituality is just a part of self (body, mind, spirit) expressing in all circumstances of life.

Religion is a manmade concept of God that has been entrenched and worshiped by the followers who attend and follow the party line.  All kinds of rituals and practices have built up around the central core of belief.

Spirituality can be found in religion (but is often lacking) through the traditions and rituals of the church structure.  Spirituality is definitely found within the human being for growth and progress.



OK, that definition I can relate to - spirituality as an emotional/inherent aspect of religious experience, while institutions are created and maintained by humans, for humans, as what might be termed an 'intellectual' aspect of religious experience.
I just don't see how 'spirituality' can stand alone as a 'faith'. By it's nature, the spiritual experience is fleeting and individual. The first thing humans do with an emotional experience is start to analyze and categorize it.  The 'spiritual encounter' between human/divine is that 'sense of awe' that Heschel speaks of. It is the BEGINNING of 'faith', not the end. I think of that encounter as a 'summit experience' - but we can't live on top of the mountain ALL the time - the best 'religion' can do is support a framework that permits ready access to the summit experience through it's rituals and forms. Granted, in some cases - for some people - a constructed form ('church') may present real or apparent obstacles to that encounter.

Since people are different, they will find 'religions' different in how 'well' they support that renewed encounter.

Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 01, 2008 - 2:55PM #58
pilahawaiian
Posts: 452
[QUOTE=spiritalk;178568]Beating within your own heart is a human urge to spirituality.  It means that with or without a church (building, group, ritual) you have begun your journey of spirituality.  It is a deep part of self that strives to enhance that part of you that is represented by a 'still, small, voice' of spirituality.  Spirituality is just a part of self (body, mind, spirit) expressing in all circumstances of life.

Religion is a manmade concept of God that has been entrenched and worshiped by the followers who attend and follow the party line.  All kinds of rituals and practices have built up around the central core of belief.

Spirituality can be found in religion (but is often lacking) through the traditions and rituals of the church structure.  Spirituality is definitely found within the human being for growth and progress.[/QUOTE]



Aloha Spirittalk May you SEE the Holy Ghost this year while you are ALIVE on Earth.

You are 99.9% RIGHT.

The small Voice of God or God’s every word is Just like the Bible say it is. It is louder then any noise on Earth, You can be standing next to a 747, and his Holy Voice within is above that 747, I’ve done it. Or you can be setting in a deep forest with no sound and the Holy Voice will be a quite as a butterflies wings flapping. It’s not a voice, like that of man. The Holy Voice is God’s shield between you and the world. The dead hear it on their way to heaven. It’s the Holy Voice from the Beginning of time.

The Peace within from this, I’m not able to explain yet. 

When you return to God with all your heart, God is soooo pleased with his Son, He sings Praises to You his Holy Son 24/7. and that is Gospel.

This happens to anyone of God’s Children that return to him, in the Holy Teachings of  Jesus.( his Holy Name)

Happy New Year and Peace be with all God’s Children.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2008 - 10:15AM #59
spiritalk
Posts: 1,165
[QUOTE=Pam34;178791]OK, that definition I can relate to - spirituality as an emotional/inherent aspect of religious experience, while institutions are created and maintained by humans, for humans, as what might be termed an 'intellectual' aspect of religious experience.

A:  Spirituality is beyond emotional.  Spirituality is not about the religious experience.  Spirituality beats within the human construct, even when an individual does NOT follow a religious tradition.  When spirituality is lacking from religion, the religion itself will not survive.  Wrong may reign for a season, but doubt you not, it will not survive its own ego.

I just don't see how 'spirituality' can stand alone as a 'faith'.

A:  Spirituality may be a belief, but faith indicates religious following.  No it is not about faith, Yes it is about belief.   There are beliefs built in that keep the individual operating from the spirit, without the moral, social or religious compass of a church.

By it's nature, the spiritual experience is fleeting and individual.

A:  I have spiritual experiences several times a day.  I interact with other in spirituality (or not) and have this recorded upon my very soul, for progression into eternity.  If you are not adjusting to spirituality and its constant experiences, you are missing the ultimate covenant with a loving God.

The first thing humans do with an emotional experience is start to analyze and categorize it.  The 'spiritual encounter' between human/divine is that 'sense of awe' that Heschel speaks of. It is the BEGINNING of 'faith', not the end. I think of that encounter as a 'summit experience' - but we can't live on top of the mountain ALL the time - the best 'religion' can do is support a framework that permits ready access to the summit experience through it's rituals and forms. Granted, in some cases - for some people - a constructed form ('church') may present real or apparent obstacles to that encounter.

A:  Stop seeing mountains and see air/energy.  The spirit (God) flows and spirituality is just a measure or indication for the individual on where they need to fall in the spectrum of individuals God works with in life's challenges.  All literature is wonderful!  Take from it what resonnates with you, but everyone takes a different message from the same words. 


Since people are different, they will find 'religions' different in how 'well' they support that renewed encounter.[/QUOTE]

A:  Spirituality is not a stagnant quality.  It is a flowing, growing quality of the human complex.  You are not the same person you were just minutes ago - never mind the beginning of this life.  You will bring with you all that the life lessons have taught to your understanding, as you leave this life.  Justifying them through any book or literature is a limited process at best.  Understanding spirituality in its flow is the measure of your own growth to awareness without anyone else's opinions or writings.  'Feel' your spirituality throughout all your experiences!
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2008 - 10:21AM #60
spiritalk
Posts: 1,165
[QUOTE=pilahawaiian;179269]Aloha Spirittalk May you SEE the Holy Ghost this year while you are ALIVE on Earth.

You are 99.9% RIGHT.

A:  Thank you for your judgement in the positive - not that I needed it!  I SEE the spirit (God) in life ALL THE TIME!

The small Voice of God or God’s every word is Just like the Bible say it is. It is louder then any noise on Earth, You can be standing next to a 747, and his Holy Voice within is above that 747, I’ve done it. Or you can be setting in a deep forest with no sound and the Holy Voice will be a quite as a butterflies wings flapping. It’s not a voice, like that of man. The Holy Voice is God’s shield between you and the world. The dead hear it on their way to heaven. It’s the Holy Voice from the Beginning of time.

A:  Now, seek it for yourself, just as you have experienced.  DO NOT expect everyone's experience to be the same.  Mine is for me, just as yours is for you.  One Size does NOT fit all!  It is a personal covenant we all have with the God of our own understanding.  While this may not be your God understanding, do not ever dismiss that it is someone else's God.


The Peace within from this, I’m not able to explain yet. 

A:  In hymn and word - It is the Peace That Passes Understanding.


When you return to God with all your heart, God is soooo pleased with his Son, He sings Praises to You his Holy Son 24/7. and that is Gospel.

A:  That is your gospel - thank God!  Now give a little respect to others' God!  And yes, I am with God in love an covenant - thank you, no thanks to the gospel according to yourself!

This happens to anyone of God’s Children that return to him, in the Holy Teachings of  Jesus.( his Holy Name)

Happy New Year and Peace be with all God’s Children.[/QUOTE]

Consider....God created each and every snowflake unique and individual in design.  Just look at what they can do when they come together!  We are experiencing an early and heavy duty amount of snow this year - this thought helps me see us as the snow - all in a pile - working together to create the beauty as well as the hazzard that is snow.  Thank you God for everything!
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