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3 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2015 - 5:13PM #1
rangerken
Posts: 16,967
Here's a sobering article...

isis_could_win_heres_what_that_means

It does seem thatr the only way to stop them is to conduct military operations on the order of WW2 to include the hell with collateral damage and civilian casualties.

The West may not have the stomach for that anymore, and if not, ISIS WILL win.

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Ken
Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2015 - 9:20PM #2
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Jul 16, 2015 -- 5:13PM, rangerken wrote:

Here's a sobering article...

isis_could_win_heres_what_that_means  ....


ISIS could win. Pigs could fly.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2015 - 10:47PM #3
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,955

Jul 16, 2015 -- 9:20PM, mountain_man wrote:


Jul 16, 2015 -- 5:13PM, rangerken wrote:

Here's a sobering article...

isis_could_win_heres_what_that_means  ....


ISIS could win. Pigs could fly.




I am probably wasting my time by asking, but what reasons do you have for saying this?




"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2015 - 3:41PM #4
TPaine
Posts: 10,308

Jul 16, 2015 -- 5:13PM, rangerken wrote:

Here's a sobering article...

isis_could_win_heres_what_that_means

It does seem thatr the only way to stop them is to conduct military operations on the order of WW2 to include the hell with collateral damage and civilian casualties.

The West may not have the stomach for that anymore, and if not, ISIS WILL win.

Comments?

Ken



Ken, now your posting that ISIS/ISIL could win unless military operations on the order of WW2 are used, yet you also posted a thread criticizing the Iran deal. Iran is the perhaps the most obvious enemy of ISIS/ISIL due to the Sunni/Shi'a fighting since the death of Muhammad, so wouldn't it make sense to support them in such a war? After all, ISIS/ISIL wants to control the world. Iran does not. ISIS/ISIL tries to recruit psychopaths from around the world to kill as many innocent people as they can. Iran does not.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture."-- Thomas Paine: The Crisis No. V (March 21, 1778)
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2015 - 5:45PM #5
in_my_opinion
Posts: 4,107

Jul 17, 2015 -- 3:41PM, TPaine wrote:


Jul 16, 2015 -- 5:13PM, rangerken wrote:

Here's a sobering article...

isis_could_win_heres_what_that_means

It does seem thatr the only way to stop them is to conduct military operations on the order of WW2 to include the hell with collateral damage and civilian casualties.

The West may not have the stomach for that anymore, and if not, ISIS WILL win.

Comments?

Ken



Ken, now your posting that ISIS/ISIL could win unless military operations on the order of WW2 are used, yet you also posted a thread criticizing the Iran deal. Iran is the perhaps the most obvious enemy of ISIS/ISIL due to the Sunni/Shi'a fighting since the death of Muhammad, so wouldn't it make sense to support them in such a war? After all, ISIS/ISIL wants to control the world. Iran does not. ISIS/ISIL tries to recruit psychopaths from around the world to kill as many innocent people as they can. Iran does not.




They both want to rule the world. They're just doing it in different ways.


This Caliphate is doing it openly by terrorizing wherever it can under the fiction of extending Islamic law and calling on any who might be persuaded to cause trouble everywhere.


The Shi'ite Iranian clergy is doing it by supporting proxies among Shi'a minorities (the Hizb in Lebanon, Houthis in Yemen, Alawites in Syria, assorted others elsewhere) and majorities (southern Iraqis) while quietly strengthening non-Shi'ite domestic anti-government and anti-establishment organizations/terror operatives/cells who show promise, without usually outing them as connected (Ikhwan in Egypt). (Hamas is also an example, but they can't hide it, certainly not when the missiles are from Iran.)


Russia and the China see Iran's current regime as an antidote to what really scares them: the possible link up of Arab Sunnis with Sunni Turkic/Altaic rebellion respectively inside or to their south (Chechens, and potentially the "Istans") and the inside the Chinese west (the Uyghurs). What neither of them realize is that the danger is subversion not invasion and war. They think they can control the Persian clergy because these have something to lose and nowhere to go. They don't realize that fanatics have little if anything they prize and can hide within any subversive minority they have previously rewarded with help.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2015 - 9:18PM #6
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Jul 17, 2015 -- 5:45PM, in_my_opinion wrote:

They both want to rule the world. They're just doing it in different ways.


Why do people believe such hyperbolic nonsense. IS wants nothing but their own country.... but that wouldn't last long since they'd kill everyone in it. Iran has never expressed any interest in taking over the world. They just want Israel to stop threatening them and the people of Iran very much want to be part of the rest of the world. Their aging religious leaders will not allow that.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2015 - 11:15PM #7
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 19,045

Ken


As a military guy you know that in an given situation either side can win. The manner in which  both the military and the civiilian effort against Isis is being conducted, leads one to believe that either we do not want to defeat Isis or we are unwilling to extend the effort and / or accept the consequences of defeating them.  For some reason we in the West have adopted the philosophy that we can not defend ourselves and should not defend ourselves. I believe it is an outgrowth of the misguided condemnation of Israel when it attempts to defend itself. We have begun to believe our own nonsense and the argument that the only acceptable defense is one that is cost free on all sides. There is no cost free way of doing anything. 

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2015 - 11:17PM #8
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 19,045

Jul 17, 2015 -- 9:18PM, mountain_man wrote:


Jul 17, 2015 -- 5:45PM, in_my_opinion wrote:

They both want to rule the world. They're just doing it in different ways.


Why do people believe such hyperbolic nonsense. IS wants nothing but their own country.... but that wouldn't last long since they'd kill everyone in it. Iran has never expressed any interest in taking over the world. They just want Israel to stop threatening them and the people of Iran very much want to be part of the rest of the world. Their aging religious leaders will not allow that.




MM


You really do need to watch something other than Iran;s press TV.  Iran has pledged itself to detroy Israel.  It is presently engaged in military operations in teh region. the purpose of these is to expand Iranian influence and power. 

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2015 - 12:27AM #9
in_my_opinion
Posts: 4,107

Jul 17, 2015 -- 9:18PM, mountain_man wrote:


Why do people believe such hyperbolic nonsense. IS wants nothing but their own country.... but that wouldn't last long since they'd kill everyone in it.




What country is that? Which failed state is to their taste? Would they like Syria? Too hard? Perhaps Iraq? Too many allies? (Americans, Iranians & Kurds?) Turkey? (too tough, a possible secret ally, and already Islamist?) How about Lebanon? (too many armed factions?)


Iran has never expressed any interest in taking over the world. They just want Israel to stop threatening them




That's rich! Really, really, funny! Before the revolution Iran and Israel were allies. Even after that regime threatened Jews and drove many to leave, Israel only welcomed those who chose to immigrate to them.


The threats came from Iran and the Iranian nuke program is aimed directly at them, just like the missiles they sent to Gaza.



and the people of Iran very much want to be part of the rest of the world.




Yup, the people of Iran; not the fanatical clergy who have them in a headlock. Those who worry about their national reputation and the ruining of their land, not the regime that oppresses over half their population.



Their aging religious leaders will not allow that.




If, it is ayatollahs; it is always going to be an aging leadership.


It is like saying that there will not be a young pope in the future; everybody understands why that is. The electorate/constituency for the ruling "religious expertise" are all old clergy.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2015 - 9:12AM #10
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Jul 18, 2015 -- 12:27AM, in_my_opinion wrote:

What country is that? ....


Uh.... their own.

Moderated by rangerken on Jul 18, 2015 - 11:55PM
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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