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Switch to Forum Live View Death Threats After Surplus Giraffe Fed to Lions
4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2014 - 1:15PM #1
d_p_m
Posts: 11,236
The usual suspects are up in arms after a genetically surplus giraffe was fed to lions at the Copenhagen zoo.

Some of them have showcased their extreme reverence for life by threatining to kill some of the zookeepers.

www.cnn.com/2014/02/10/world/europe/denm...

For a good explanation of why there were no other good alternatives, see this article:

news.nationalpost.com/2014/02/09/why-a-d...

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."
― Niels Bohr

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
-- Albert Einstein

"If one is going to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a bit of social awkwardness."
-- Penny Dreadful, season one, episode two
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2014 - 1:51PM #2
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

They didn't have to breed the animal since they knew before hand it would be genetically redundant. They created, then killed, this animal for profit only.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2014 - 1:55PM #3
Druac
Posts: 14,509

Feb 10, 2014 -- 1:51PM, mountain_man wrote:


They didn't have to breed the animal since they knew before hand it would be genetically redundant. They created, then killed, this animal for profit only.





He said his zoo had turned down offers from other ones to take Marius and an offer from a private individual who wanted to buy the giraffe for 500,000 euros ($680,000).


A perfectly healthy young giraffe named Marius was shot dead and autopsied in the presence of visitors to the gardens at Copenhagen zoo on Feb. 9, 2014.


Stenbaek Bro said a significant part of EAZA membership is that the zoos don’t own the animals themselves, but govern them, and therefore can’t sell them to anyone outside the organization that doesn’t follow the same set of rules.



Edit: removed coding from quote

Moderated by Stardove on Feb 10, 2014 - 06:34PM
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2014 - 2:21PM #4
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Feb 10, 2014 -- 1:55PM, Druac wrote:

He said his zoo had turned down offers from other ones to take Marius and an offer from a private individual who wanted to buy the giraffe for 500,000 euros ($680,000).


...


Stenbaek Bro said a significant part of EAZA membership is that the zoos don’t own the animals themselves, but govern them, and therefore can’t sell them to anyone outside the organization that doesn’t follow the same set of rules.



All the individual buyer had to do was sign a paper saying he would follow the same rules. That $680,00 could have bought 85 years of food for one lion.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2014 - 3:00PM #5
d_p_m
Posts: 11,236

Feb 10, 2014 -- 2:21PM, mountain_man wrote:


Feb 10, 2014 -- 1:55PM, Druac wrote:

He said his zoo had turned down offers from other ones to take Marius and an offer from a private individual who wanted to buy the giraffe for 500,000 euros ($680,000).


...


Stenbaek Bro said a significant part of EAZA membership is that the zoos don’t own the animals themselves, but govern them, and therefore can’t sell them to anyone outside the organization that doesn’t follow the same set of rules.



All the individual buyer had to do was sign a paper saying he would follow the same rules. That $680,00 could have bought 85 years of food for one lion.




Doesn't help if the zoo has a contractual obligation to EAZA... it would still be a breach of contract.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."
― Niels Bohr

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
-- Albert Einstein

"If one is going to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a bit of social awkwardness."
-- Penny Dreadful, season one, episode two
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2014 - 4:04PM #6
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Feb 10, 2014 -- 3:00PM, d_p_m wrote:

Doesn't help if the zoo has a contractual obligation to EAZA... it would still be a breach of contract.


It does if the person joined EAZA.


"Membership is open to all zoos and aquariums in Europe that are willing to comply with EAZA's standards and are committed to high levels of professionalism. Obligations have to be met with regard to breeding programme participation, animal husbandry practices, ethics, staff quality and conservation education. Compliance with national and international legislation regarding animal and plant acquisition, possession and transport is also mandatory."


They could have done something if they really cared to.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2014 - 4:14PM #7
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Zoos and all forms of human "management" of wildlife are abominations.  Once humans start manipulating and destroying ecosystems and  start taking the roles of providers, that the animals themselves should have, there is no limit to how far they will have to go. The  control of one aspect will lead to more control of others and the so called "wildlife" will be  no more. 


  Best thing humans can do is leave them alone.  They survived millions of years without our "care".

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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2014 - 4:37PM #8
d_p_m
Posts: 11,236

Feb 10, 2014 -- 4:14PM, arielg wrote:


Zoos and all forms of human "management" of wildlife are abominations.  Once humans start manipulating and destroying ecosystems and  start taking the roles of providers, that the animals themselves should have, there is no limit to how far they will have to go. The  control of one aspect will lead to more control of others and the so called "wildlife" will be  no more. 


  Best thing humans can do is leave them alone.  They survived millions of years without our "care".




And in the natural course of events, a lot of these species would go extinct, pushed out by a more competetive species (us). Some people think that would be bad.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."
― Niels Bohr

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
-- Albert Einstein

"If one is going to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a bit of social awkwardness."
-- Penny Dreadful, season one, episode two
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2014 - 4:51PM #9
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Feb 10, 2014 -- 4:37PM, d_p_m wrote:


Feb 10, 2014 -- 4:14PM, arielg wrote:


Zoos and all forms of human "management" of wildlife are abominations.  Once humans start manipulating and destroying ecosystems and  start taking the roles of providers, that the animals themselves should have, there is no limit to how far they will have to go. The  control of one aspect will lead to more control of others and the so called "wildlife" will be  no more. 


  Best thing humans can do is leave them alone.  They survived millions of years without our "care".




And in the natural course of events, a lot of these species would go extinct, pushed out by a more competetive species (us). Some people think that would be bad.




It would certainly be bad.  But so  will be a stupid animal in a cage in some zoo, that has never run free, which is what we are increasingy going towards.Or some nice pictures in a book.


If our species were naturally more competitive and drives others to extintion, so be it.  I just don't think it is "natural".  It is just the result of ignorance.  Which was never at play in the natural world before.

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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2014 - 4:59PM #10
d_p_m
Posts: 11,236

Feb 10, 2014 -- 4:51PM, arielg wrote:


If our species were naturally more competitive and drives others to extintion, so be it.  I just don't think it is "natural".  It is just the result of ignorance.  Which was never at play in the natural world before.



I am not sure I understand this.


I do know, however, that early Americans, about 10,000 years ago, hunted herd animals by driving entire herds off cliffs. It was effective, efficient, and not at all concerned with whether or not it would render the target species extinct. Indeed, the paucity of large American species is sometimes attributed to zealous and efficient hunting between 15,000 and 8,000 years ago.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."
― Niels Bohr

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
-- Albert Einstein

"If one is going to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a bit of social awkwardness."
-- Penny Dreadful, season one, episode two
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