Jul 5, 2012 -- 5:17PM, arielg wrote:

Jul 5, 2012 -- 3:33PM, Druac wrote:

This thread is a perfect example of why we are all screwed...they got us all right where they want us…divided, with no hope of coming together, even long enough to regain control of our own government...so I guess we can all just sit back and watch it spiral out of control to the inevitable end of this great nation…as some on the right here have already stated they are happy to do.

Who is the "they" that want us divided? We are coming together enough to have a good life in a functional country.  What else do you want? 

 We are divided because we all think differently and everybody is working to implement their notion of what should be the way to live.  There is nothing spiraling out of control.   Of anything, life is kind of boring.  Just listen to the politicians. Can anybody find exitment in them?

I was watching  a debate by the Mexican candidates the other night ( they just had an election there).It is incredible how similar their arguments, their positions, their concepts are to politicians everywhere. "Going forward" "Jobs", "Safety",  "Get moving again", etc.It is as if they go to the same Universal School of Demagoguery.

 Politicians  have been doing this from time immemorial.  And some pèople get exited about one candidate or the other, thinking theirs is the only salvation possible to avoid the end of life as we know it. 

And never seem to realize nothing ever changes very much, except governmet posts.

Well .. Ariel .... I'll have to respectfully disagree with you.

"I" .. am in the "they" that DRUAC is referring, in fact, I'm propably the only one he's referring too ... and dang proud of it.

In contrast to your assessment of people wanting it "to be as they think" .. I hold firm on wanting it to be as the CONSTITUTION defines within its original intent.

Now ... you seem to be under the delusion that nothing has changed very much, when indeed, much has changed .... and the change has come in direct opposition to the ideals set forth by the Founding Fathers.  The Changes have "transferred" more and more power to the Federal Government, by way of blackmail and money.  It's of note .. there was a REASON that the Constitution was written as a document to LIMIT the power of the FED, and to protect the people from GOVERNMENT.  Even back then, they KNEW that Politicians are power hungry scum.

More specifically ... the "liberal interpretation" of "general welfare" in the kangaroo courts of FDR, have provided the base upon which the Government has passed into law unconstitutional programs such as S.S., Medicare, Medicaid, National Education, Corprate Subsidies, the Patriot Act ... and now .. Obamacare.   Even disaster assistance was not originally thought of as a "federal issue" ... but rather an opportunity for community and state to pull together and solve their own problems.  Today, however ... EVERYONE has their hand out to the Federal Government for this or that ... and the reason why, is because of Liberal Policy laid down over the last hundred years, starting with the approval of the Federal Reserve, have made the entirity of our society dependent on Federal Dollars.  The PROBLEM with this scenario, is perfectly illustrated in the perspective forwarded in Obamacare .... "Expand Medicaid, or we will cut off your existing Medicaid funding".  I find it amusing that the Court struck this down, because the Fed has been doing it for years.  Louisiana was threatened to raise the drinking age to 21, or else lose Highway Funds.  Numerous School Systems are threatened to "teach this and not that" .. or the Fed will cut off Education Funds.

Essentially, the Fed, and Liberal Policy, have made it such that the Fed can dictate your freedom and liberty by withholding the money they steal from you in taxes.

The Response by most Americans ... APATHY!  Worse than that ... they "embrace" the oppression, as long as the money keeps comming in.  Now they are addicted to it.  Now .. S.S. is considered a "right", even though there is no basis in law that it is, or should be.  Even the S.S. Admin. states it's not a "right".  Medicare, .. the same thing .. to the point that we hear such rediculous lines as "so n so is going to take away your heatlhcare".

Now .. I look at the crybabies across the big pond, as their Liberal Utopias collapse of their own weight and entitlement. .. and ask myself ... do I want my Nation to become "that".

No I don't.  I'd rather it die, split up, and me be able to live in the part that still holds true to the original principles and ideal set out in the intent of the founding documents. ..... and .... in all fairness .... allow the leftist of our nation to create and "suffer" the utopia they think is possible. ... but at their own expense .. not mine.

Jul 5, 2012 -- 6:16PM, Druac wrote:

Jul 5, 2012 -- 6:08PM, Bodean wrote:

Blah....blah....blah..."leftist", "liberal", puke...

How is that blame-game working for you and our nation?

How's Obama working out for you and the nation??

Jul 5, 2012 -- 8:03PM, Druac wrote:

 

In my honest opinion...far better than McCain/Palin would have...and better than a Romney administration would be.

But I would feel much better if we all could get together long enough to clean-house of both party's career politicians and reform the whole process…because, until that happens, we are ALL just pissing in the wind.

 

So ... make a comparison to an unknown and claim success.  Brilliant!

As for your dream of cleaning house .. how can it happen when we can't agree on who's the trash, and who's not!  Hence .. it's not going to happen.

But take heart .. we have an election day comming up in November .. but somehow .. I don't think you'd be in favor of getting rid of the problem .... because obviously .. you don't see a problem.

.... from here ... I'll say no more ... I'll just put blah blah blah blah.

Jul 5, 2012 -- 9:05PM, Spiritoptions wrote:

I don't know about cutting a pasting peoples comments but I do know this. This is a forum on beliefnet and somehow God and spirituality seem to be largely missing from this discussion. It is  like a war here and there can be no meeting of the minds if both sides are locked into their extremist positions. While I realize this is simply a reflection of what is going on in the larger world outside it still leads to the same results. NOTHING ACCOMPLISHED. Hatred of Obama or left leaning people is simply destructive. The same goes when it is aimed at the right. Apathy is not the answer but open minded discussion is.

Spiritoptions .... welcome to the war zone .. LOL!

I don't hate Obama .. nor do I hate left leaning people.  I disagree ... "strongly" .. with left of center policy.

You mention God ... well, you'll find some here don't believe in God.  I don't just believe in God, I've experienced God ...not in the abstract, but in reality.  God calls us to be charitable of heart, not push for laws that take away our neighbors property and redistribute it to others.  God calls us to give of ourselves ... not take of our neighbor and give it as if it were our own. [and then feel as if "we" did something noble].

There is a good reason there can be no compromise on the issue.  On this very issue, Healthcare, there is only ONE side that is set in stone, and non-compromising. .. it is the Left.  They are cemented in the perspective to have a Single Payer system.  We on the right, OTOH, throw up ideas here and there, brainstorm, acknowledge what is good about our current system and try to retain that while trying to come with ideas to help those who are less fortunate.  Granted, I think the GOP could do more, do a better job of addressing the problem.  There is some good in this bill that will be retained if it gets repealed .. like pre-existing conditions.  BUT .. This bill was written by Democrats behind close doors, for Democrats, and put in place by Democrats for Democrats.  It's complete grounds is Social Justice .. which is simple .. by law, we need to "steal" other people's property and redistribute it as "we" [the Left] see fit.

Romney has rightly turned away from MAcare.  It has skyrocketed cost, and now MA is voing on price controls.  I don't begrudge the MA Public MAcare . .it is what they wanted .. overwhelmingly, ... there was little decent.  That's just not the case for the Nation.  I have no doubt, that with time ... the people of MAcare will come to see the flaws in their system.  That chicken will come home to roost.  Luckily for them, most of them are "well to do", so it shouldn't be as much of a problem as it would be in ... let's say .. Mississippi .. where half the population is on Welfare.  That's quite a different scenario.