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Switch to Forum Live View Supreme Court upholds individual mandate
2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 9:36PM #81
TENAC
Posts: 25,850
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Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 9:41PM #82
christzen
Posts: 6,569

Jun 28, 2012 -- 9:29PM, MMarcoe wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 7:17PM, christzen wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 11:08AM, MMarcoe wrote:


We can now look forward to being in a captive market to health insurance companies, who will raise our premiums because of it. Do people understand that?




 


We have to buy homeowners ins because banks insist upon it until the loan is clear.


Only if we choose to buy a home with a loan.


We have to buy auto liability ins because the law demands it.


Only if we choose to drive. Not simply because we're alive, as ACA now requires.


In my business I must buy liability ins to cover any damages that occur from my work because the state regulatory agency demands it a a condition of issuing me a license to contract.


Only if you choose to contract. Not simply because you're alive.


 


In all cases, there are literally dozens of competitive choices out there. Why will health ins be any different?


As has been said already, the health ins requirement is being levied simply because you are alive, not because you are making a choice to exercise a privilege.


You can see the big difference, yes?








 


 Well, you didn't grasp the point I was making with those examples,but yes, I see your point, even though you missed mine.Now, how many people out there pay cash for their house and don't drive cars? I suppose you can avoid the income tax by not having any income, and avoid paying sales tax by not buying clothes,soap,and other items most folks consider part of a normal life if you choose to also.


 


 But the main point I was making is that with all of the ins my life choices require me to buy, I am not a captive market with no outlet for shopping for cheaper ins, forced to buy through the roof premiums because I have to have it.  There is no reason to expect that it will change with this.Actually, I would expect a new market of cheap,bare bones coverage to open up to target those who will have trouble meeting the requirement now.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 10:14PM #83
teilhard
Posts: 51,051

Yes ... The Loss of Impetus for "Single Payer" is a HUGE Downside ...


Jun 28, 2012 -- 9:06PM, Druac wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 8:56PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 8:30PM, Armwar wrote:


I disagree with you GC...the people who now go to Community Centers but have the means to seek other greener and prettier grasses will do so.  Better bricks.  That way they won't have to feel so inferior.




CHCs currently see more than 7 million Medicaid patients. They will continue to see those patients and take on the patients newly enrolled in Medicaid. As you keep pointing out, private docs don't want Medicaid patients (partially because of low reimbursement) and they aren't going to all of a sudden want to take on all the Medicaid patients. Add to that the fact that there will still be uninsured due to illegal aliens and folks that simply choose not to buy insurance and they'll continue to have patients.




+1


My Mom works in the medical industry...and she basically gave me the same opinion. At the same time, she still tells me we are desperate for a single payer system and this band-aid isn't going to fix that...and it may make it harder to accomplish it before it is too late.






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2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 10:48PM #84
aarroottoonn
Posts: 3,128

Jun 28, 2012 -- 10:14PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes ... The Loss of Impetus for "Single Payer" is a HUGE Downside ...


Jun 28, 2012 -- 9:06PM, Druac wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 8:56PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 8:30PM, Armwar wrote:


I disagree with you GC...the people who now go to Community Centers but have the means to seek other greener and prettier grasses will do so.  Better bricks.  That way they won't have to feel so inferior.




CHCs currently see more than 7 million Medicaid patients. They will continue to see those patients and take on the patients newly enrolled in Medicaid. As you keep pointing out, private docs don't want Medicaid patients (partially because of low reimbursement) and they aren't going to all of a sudden want to take on all the Medicaid patients. Add to that the fact that there will still be uninsured due to illegal aliens and folks that simply choose not to buy insurance and they'll continue to have patients.




+1


My Mom works in the medical industry...and she basically gave me the same opinion. At the same time, she still tells me we are desperate for a single payer system and this band-aid isn't going to fix that...and it may make it harder to accomplish it before it is too late.









In order for that statement to be true, there would have had to have been some demand for single payer, and there never has been in the US.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 10:59PM #85
teilhard
Posts: 51,051

On the Contrary ... Quite a FEW of us wanted "Single Payer" ...


Jun 28, 2012 -- 10:48PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 10:14PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes ... The Loss of Impetus for "Single Payer" is a HUGE Downside ...


Jun 28, 2012 -- 9:06PM, Druac wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 8:56PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 8:30PM, Armwar wrote:


I disagree with you GC...the people who now go to Community Centers but have the means to seek other greener and prettier grasses will do so.  Better bricks.  That way they won't have to feel so inferior.




CHCs currently see more than 7 million Medicaid patients. They will continue to see those patients and take on the patients newly enrolled in Medicaid. As you keep pointing out, private docs don't want Medicaid patients (partially because of low reimbursement) and they aren't going to all of a sudden want to take on all the Medicaid patients. Add to that the fact that there will still be uninsured due to illegal aliens and folks that simply choose not to buy insurance and they'll continue to have patients.




+1


My Mom works in the medical industry...and she basically gave me the same opinion. At the same time, she still tells me we are desperate for a single payer system and this band-aid isn't going to fix that...and it may make it harder to accomplish it before it is too late.









In order for that statement to be true, there would have had to have been some demand for single payer, and there never has been in the US.





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2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 11:03PM #86
Bodean
Posts: 9,489

Jun 28, 2012 -- 10:48PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 10:14PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes ... The Loss of Impetus for "Single Payer" is a HUGE Downside ...


 




In order for that statement to be true, there would have had to have been some demand for single payer, and there never has been in the US.





Not to worry ar ... this is the way the Left works.  You create the demand by injecting the policiy into society, and getting them addicted to it.  FDR injected SS into society 80 years ago ... today, people are addicted to it.  Same for LBJ and Medicare and Medicaid.


When all those people get free to cheap healthcare at the expense of the tax payers ... or borrowed money by the Government, and then someone tries to take it away, they will scream Single Payer.


It's imperative that the public elects Romney and changes control of both house and senate to repeals this thing before it gets a chance to take hold.  That really is the only choice for the Nation ... or else .. fast track to "Greece" .. here we come. 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 11:03PM #87
MMarcoe
Posts: 16,342

Jun 28, 2012 -- 9:41PM, christzen wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 9:29PM, MMarcoe wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 7:17PM, christzen wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 11:08AM, MMarcoe wrote:


We can now look forward to being in a captive market to health insurance companies, who will raise our premiums because of it. Do people understand that?




 


We have to buy homeowners ins because banks insist upon it until the loan is clear.


Only if we choose to buy a home with a loan.


We have to buy auto liability ins because the law demands it.


Only if we choose to drive. Not simply because we're alive, as ACA now requires.


In my business I must buy liability ins to cover any damages that occur from my work because the state regulatory agency demands it a a condition of issuing me a license to contract.


Only if you choose to contract. Not simply because you're alive.


 


In all cases, there are literally dozens of competitive choices out there. Why will health ins be any different?


As has been said already, the health ins requirement is being levied simply because you are alive, not because you are making a choice to exercise a privilege.


You can see the big difference, yes?








 


 Well, you didn't grasp the point I was making with those examples,but yes, I see your point, even though you missed mine.Now, how many people out there pay cash for their house and don't drive cars? I suppose you can avoid the income tax by not having any income, and avoid paying sales tax by not buying clothes,soap,and other items most folks consider part of a normal life if you choose to also.


 


 But the main point I was making is that with all of the ins my life choices require me to buy, I am not a captive market with no outlet for shopping for cheaper ins, forced to buy through the roof premiums because I have to have it. 


No, you're not a captive market in these cases. But these cases are different. They arise from your choice to buy a house or car or business. They do not arise from the simple fact of you being alive.


We're talking apples and oranges here.


 


 There is no reason to expect that it will change with this.Actually, I would expect a new market of cheap,bare bones coverage to open up to target those who will have trouble meeting the requirement now.


I really doubt this will happen. The underlying problem is that healthcare is expensive. It's based on advancing technology that does not scale down easily, it's based on expensive innovations, and it's based on people using too much of it and often in the wrong ways.


But if some kind of cheap, bare-bones coverage does become available, I'm thinking it'll be some kind of catastrophic policy or something that isn't very useful to most people. Still, I'll wait with hope.





There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.

God is just a personification of reality, of pure objectivity.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 11:24PM #88
Ed.W
Posts: 9,436

There is no reason to expect that it will change with this.Actually, I would expect a new market of cheap,bare bones coverage to open up to target those who will have trouble meeting the requirement now.




Barebones, catastrophic only coverage will not count as insurance.




The second problem with this flawed policy is that the scope of benefits is for prepaid health care NOT insurance.


We now have a policy whereby the Secretary of HHS establishes the minimum benefit package that one must obtain, a benefit package based on health care consumption not insurance. Prevention and maintenance is part of the essential benefit package. This is akin to mandating your auto insurance policy cover free oil changes and tire rotations.  (Forbes.com 6/28/2012)




Read it and weep.

‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 29, 2012 - 12:04AM #89
teilhard
Posts: 51,051

Thank you, Ayn Rand ...

Jun 28, 2012 -- 11:03PM, Bodean wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 10:48PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 10:14PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes ... The Loss of Impetus for "Single Payer" is a HUGE Downside ...


 




In order for that statement to be true, there would have had to have been some demand for single payer, and there never has been in the US.





Not to worry ar ... this is the way the Left works.  You create the demand by injecting the policiy into society, and getting them addicted to it.  FDR injected SS into society 80 years ago ... today, people are addicted to it.  Same for LBJ and Medicare and Medicaid.


When all those people get free to cheap healthcare at the expense of the tax payers ... or borrowed money by the Government, and then someone tries to take it away, they will scream Single Payer.


It's imperative that the public elects Romney and changes control of both house and senate to repeals this thing before it gets a chance to take hold.  That really is the only choice for the Nation ... or else .. fast track to "Greece" .. here we come. 





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2 years ago  ::  Jun 29, 2012 - 12:08AM #90
Ed.W
Posts: 9,436

Give this a look (4:33):


‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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