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Switch to Forum Live View FORTUNE and the history of guns, running and walking!
2 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 5:12PM #1
voice-crying
Posts: 7,222
features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/2...

What happened?
"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 5:25PM #2
Druac
Posts: 12,131

Well...I see part of Arizonas OWN problem in this statement:



Customers can legally buy as many weapons as they want in Arizona as long as they're 18 or older and pass a criminal background check. There are no waiting periods and no need for permits, and buyers are allowed to resell the guns. "In Arizona," says Voth, "someone buying three guns is like someone buying a sandwich."



Jesus Is My Savior...He Saves Me From REALITY!
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We created god in our own image and likeness!
[George Carlin]
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"Reason & Logic" - A Damn Good Slogan!
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg, an American physicist
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 6:23PM #3
voice-crying
Posts: 7,222

Jun 27, 2012 -- 5:25PM, Druac wrote:


Well...I see part of Arizonas OWN problem in this statement:



Customers can legally buy as many weapons as they want in Arizona as long as they're 18 or older and pass a criminal background check. There are no waiting periods and no need for permits, and buyers are allowed to resell the guns. "In Arizona," says Voth, "someone buying three guns is like someone buying a sandwich."






CryI guess a gun store in AZ is like a wholesale distribution centerCry

"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 3:40AM #4
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,288

This is from almost the end of the article;



“But CBS didn't quote the portions of Voth's e-mail that described how the group was divided by "petty arguing" and "adolescent behavior." Instead, CBS claimed the schism had been caused by opposition to gun walking (such alleged opposition is not discussed anywhere in the e-mail, which is below). CBS asserted that Dodson and others had protested the tactic "over and over," and then quoted portions of Voth's e-mail in a way that left the impression that gun walking was endorsed at headquarters.”



The news media has been doing this for a long time, they just haven’t realized they can’t get away with it any more. NBC did some selective editing with a speech by Romney last week and then some more with that Zimmerman transcript.



There are a couple of interesting points which smell greatly;


“Voth arrived in Phoenix in December 2009 only to discover that his group had not been funded. The group had little equipment and no long guns, electronic devices, or binoculars, forcing Voth to scrounge for supplies.


Then there was Voth's seven-agent team, which was almost instantly at war with itself. Most of the agents were transplants, unfamiliar with Arizona or one another.”


Why, why was this team unfunded and a group unfamiliar with the problems in Arizona?? Seems a little deliberate!


“Their greatest difficulty by far, however, was convincing prosecutors that they had sufficient grounds to seize guns and arrest straw purchasers. By June 2010 the agents had sent the U.S. Attorney's office a list of 31 suspects they wanted to arrest, with 46 pages outlining their illegal acts. But for the next seven months prosecutors did not indict a single suspect…..Emory Hurley, the assistant U.S. Attorney in Phoenix overseeing the Fast and Furious case, told the agents they lacked probable cause for arrests, according to ATF records….They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.”


This Hurley seems to have put up road blocks wherever he could, why? Who was pulling Hurley’s strings??



“Among the discoveries: Fast and Furious' top suspects—Sinaloa Cartel operatives and Mexican nationals who were providing the money, ordering the guns, and directing the recruitment of the straw purchasers—turned out to be FBI informants who were receiving money from the bureau. That came as news to the ATF agents in Group VII.”


It does seem someone was manipulating them all the way around.


Now there is a big difference between fast and furious and the Bush’s Wide Receiver program.


In Bush’s program they were working with the Mexican government and they placed tracking devices on the guns. 1400 arrest were made, not sure how many of those were found guilty in Mexico. Once the bad guys figured out there were tracking devices on the guns they disabled them so the program was shut down in 2007.



In Obama’s program which started 2 years later but  the Mexican government was not informed. The guns were not tagged and not followed across the boarder in anyway. No one was arrested but at least 200 Mexican citizens and probably many more are dead along with one US boarder agent.


The whole thing is shameful! 

Wise men still seek him.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 9:23AM #5
Jasr
Posts: 11,803

Jun 28, 2012 -- 3:40AM, withwonderingawe wrote:


In Bush’s program they were working with the Mexican government and they placed tracking devices on the guns.




I find this claim laughable and would love to see a source.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 9:41AM #6
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

I can not find the post but in a thread on BN a poster said that  fast and furious  was going  to be a bigger scandal than Watergate.  That may be true but the culprits will be  Republican  senators, congress and Anti Obama PACs and news outlets. 

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 10:07AM #7
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Jun 28, 2012 -- 9:41AM, Fodaoson wrote:


I can not find the post but in a thread on BN a poster said that  fast and furious  was going  to be a bigger scandal than Watergate.  That may be true but the culprits will be  Republican  senators, congress and Anti Obama PACs and news outlets. 





Hello,



Fod...


I said that. If we had a Conservative in the Executive Office this would be, ala Nixon all over again. Congress needs to do it's job. The Media needs to it's job of solid journalism and not entertainment. Finally, we all can come together because we're all Americans. This pitting sides and polarizing is getting monotonous. I'm tired of it.



love

Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2012 - 11:21AM #8
voice-crying
Posts: 7,222

Jun 28, 2012 -- 9:41AM, Fodaoson wrote:


"...That may be true but the culprits will be  Republican  senators, congress and Anti Obama PACs and news outlets." 





So True!!!


And,


I think Issa is slowly meltingSmile


www.newsday.com/opinion/oped/sanchez-iss...


 

"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2012 - 11:33AM #9
Druac
Posts: 12,131

Jun 30, 2012 -- 11:21AM, voice-crying wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 9:41AM, Fodaoson wrote:


"...That may be true but the culprits will be  Republican  senators, congress and Anti Obama PACs and news outlets." 





So True!!!


And,


I think Issa is slowly meltingSmile


www.newsday.com/opinion/oped/sanchez-iss...


 




Oh...no doubt he is...the idiot made it clear what he didn't want to come out in this investigation from the get go...the REAL reason behind all the guns in Mexico. His paymasters probably gave him those marching orders early on.


But now it all comes out in the Fortune investigation (because they did their job, unlike the ass-hats on Issa's panel) and he can't hide it now.



Jesus Is My Savior...He Saves Me From REALITY!
---------------------------------------------
We created god in our own image and likeness!
[George Carlin]
---------------------------------------------
"Reason & Logic" - A Damn Good Slogan!
---------------------------------------------
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg, an American physicist
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2012 - 4:21PM #10
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

 


Freedom and democratic forms of government are difficult to manage.   Often one person’s freedom limits another’s; ones pursuit of happiness infringes on another’s pursuit.  Domestic tranquility, general welfare and common defense can place burdens on some.   


 The freedom of speech and a free press as currently interpreted  means that an individual can tell half-truths and outright lies, can use offensive language  and print the same.


  The second amendment means that  most persons  can   possess an trade or sell arms  as they wish. Some cities  and states limit concealed weapons and others, but some states  do not have the same limitations. 


    Guns, and propaganda are  two difficulties we face as  free people.          

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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