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Switch to Forum Live View The Churches Against Israel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2012 - 11:35AM #1
JRoadrunner
Posts: 4,237
Over the past several decades Jews and Christians have built strong bridges with each other. Nevertheless, the churches represented in the article below (claiming 590 million worshippers) are threatening to blow up those bridges and basically return Christianity to many of its medieval virulently anti-Semitic prejudices (albeit some in new forms). 

Of course, Jews have so many fine Christian friends. But, then again, there are also those that are virulent anti-Semites (often hiding behind anti-Zionism), who besmirch their religious heritage and who are basically reviving all the worst parts of their tradition.

Therefore, thanks to those fair-minded Christians -- who hopefully are in the majority -- that
build bridges, not destroy them. 


The Churches Against Israel


The World Council of Churches, an ecumenical Christian body based in Genève and boasting 590 million worshippers, just ended a four-day conference in the Greek city of Volos...

Lutherans arrived to Volos from the United States, Catholics and Protestants from Bethlehem and Nazareth, Orthodox Christians from Greece and Russia, lecturers from Beirut and Copts from Egypt. The conference declared the Jewish State "a sin" and "occupying power," accused Israelis of "dehumanizing" the Palestinians, theologically dismantled the "choseness" of the Jewish people and called for "resistance" as a Christian duty.

The conference denied 3,000 years of Jewish life in the land stretching between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River, took sides against the very presence of Israel, likened the defensive barrier that has blocked terrorism to "apartheid," attacked Jewish homes in Judea and Samaria invoking the name of God and conceptually dismissed the Jewish state, imagining it to be a mixture - Islamic, Christian and perhaps a bit Jewish. It even legitimized terrorism when it talked about the "thousands of prisoners who languish in Israeli jails," proclaiming that "resistance to the evil of occupation is a Christian's right and duty." 


La Civiltà Cattolica, the Vatican magazine reviewed by the Holy See secretary of state before publication, in January opened with a shocking editorial on Palestinian refugees. Adopting the Islamist propagandist word "Nakba," just recently invoked by Arab mobs to breach Israel's borders, the paper declared that the refugees are a consequence of "ethnic cleansing" by Israel and that "the Zionists were cleverly able to exploit the Western sense of guilt for the Shoah to lay the foundations of their own state." Indeed, Ahmadinejad's rhetoric is alarmingly similar.

Israel’s relationship with the Vatican is different from Jerusalem’s relationship with Albania or Luxembourg for example, because the Catholic Church has more than one billion adherents and a global moral authority. At the Rome synod, Archbishop Cyrille Salim Bustros, a cleric chosen by Pope Ratzinger to draft the synod’s 44 final propositions, denied the Jewish people’s biblical right to the Promised Land. "We Christians cannot speak about the Promised Land for the Jewish people. There is no longer a chosen people", Bustros said, reviving the "replacement theology."

Edmond Farhat, a Maronite Apostolic Nuncio, who is a sort of Vatican's ambassador, described Israel’s place in the Middle East in terms of a rejected "foreign implant" that which has no specialists "capable of healing it."


Elsewhere, the current Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, Fouad Twal, named by Pope Ratzinger to represent the Catholic community in Israel and the West Bank, is sponsoring an appeal against the "Judaization of Jerusalem." Indeed, at this time, new anti-Israel policies by the most powerful Christian groups are breathing new life into Medieval doctrine that demonized Jews for hundreds of years.

The replacement calumny has changed its language, yet it still marks a death sentence for the Jewish people: Israelis, like Lucifer, were God's chosen but were cast out for their rebellious and evil ways, and now deserve to be obliterated from the so-called "Holy Land,” the argument goes. From Norwich to Itamar, the Jewish martyrs are an everlasting and heroic stain in this horrible, theological blood libel.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 7:01AM #2
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,310

You sure use colorful language in your interpretation. Wish you had given us a link to website you got all this from so we also could read it.


I didn't have a problem with the quote itself, but a lot about your negative interpretation.


Church in its essence is not a political body - but a religious and focused on discovering God and the life according to Divine laws.


It is the fault of the western political  bodies which turned a blind eye to Israeli behavior towards Palestinians and their land, that now Israeli ego  can't seem to stop itself.


 


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 7:21AM #3
LeahOne
Posts: 16,242

Dos, the link was in the title in blue.


Since you haven't specified what you consider 'colorful language' and such, it's really not possible to discuss it.   Not a mind reader over here....


I will comment about your blaming 'Western politicians' and 'Jewish ego', though.  That certainly appears to be the baseless bigoted drivel of 'Eastern bloc' rhetoric. 


Basicaly all you've said is "It's not the churches' fault that they are acting this way"....I'd like to know who is forcing them then.....

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 11:02AM #4
BDboy
Posts: 5,329

Some of the claims of the article are a little overblown.


No one should deny that, Jewish people had some historical connection to the land. Like Christians and Muslims, they ALSO have spiritual connection to the land.


Albeit most Jews did not live on present Israel most of last 2000 years, we need NOT to deny their spiritual connection. That would be like the fanatic Jews who simply deny spiritual connection of Muslims and Christians to the land.


I said it many times, Israeli policies made Israel VERY unpopular to people keeps track of events in the holy land. Israel needs to find ways to win friends within the region and try to remove issues between non-Jewish natives and Jewish people.


A peaceful solution to current problems is the best insurance policy for long term sustainability of Israel.


In last 60 + years most churches have been very supportive of the state of Israel. Israel gotten away with a lot of naughty stuffs but Israel is not a spoiled teenager anymore.


People expect Israel to be an example for the region. A strong leader who inspires others by example. Sadly countries closer to Israel are not a fan and often been harmed by it.


I hope Israeli leadership will come it realize even a strong country like Israel has it's limitations. People will not put up with SOME very unsavory policies still in practice by Israel. Sooner Israel realize it better it will be for them.


 


[Source: www.btselem.org/press_releases/20120520_... ]

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 11:14AM #5
browbeaten
Posts: 3,066

Jun 21, 2012 -- 11:02AM, BDboy wrote:


Some of the claims of the article are a little overblown.


No one should deny that, Jewish people had some historical connection to the land. Like Christians and Muslims, they ALSO have spiritual connection to the land.


Albeit most Jews did not live on present Israel most of last 2000 years, we need NOT to deny their spiritual connection. That would be like the fanatic Jews who simply deny spiritual connection of Muslims and Christians to the land.


I said it many times, Israeli policies made Israel VERY unpopular to people keeps track of events in the holy land. Israel needs to find ways to win friends within the region and try to remove issues between non-Jewish natives and Jewish people.


A peaceful solution to current problems is the best insurance policy for long term sustainability of Israel.


In last 60 + years most churches have been very supportive of the state of Israel. Israel gotten away with a lot of naughty stuffs but Israel is not a spoiled teenager anymore.


People expect Israel to be an example for the region. A strong leader who inspires others by example. Sadly countries closer to Israel are not a fan and often been harmed by it.


I hope Israeli leadership will come it realize even a strong country like Israel has it's limitations. People will not put up with SOME very unsavory policies still in practice by Israel. Sooner Israel realize it better it will be for them.


 


[Source: www.btselem.org/press_releases/20120520_... ]




There is only one "unsavory policy still in practice by Israel" and that is IT'S EXISTENCE.  Like it or not, that is the only reason for conflict in the region.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 12:26PM #6
BDboy
Posts: 5,329

I don't agree with such "Dramatic answer".


Local Jews lived with local non-Jews (Mainly Muslims and Christians) for centuries. However when fanatic zionists took over leadership of world's Jewish population and started migrating Europeans en mass to the tiny place, it started all kinds of problem.


The link I have posted in last message shows how armed  settlers were shooting at locals. You simply can't make friends this way. Only blind fanatics may think this "Unique" policy will lead to something good but history says otherwise.


Let us see how things work out this time around.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 3:21PM #7
browbeaten
Posts: 3,066

Jun 21, 2012 -- 12:26PM, BDboy wrote:


I don't agree with such "Dramatic answer".


Local Jews lived with local non-Jews (Mainly Muslims and Christians) for centuries. However when fanatic zionists took over leadership of world's Jewish population and started migrating Europeans en mass to the tiny place, it started all kinds of problem.


The link I have posted in last message shows how armed  settlers were shooting at locals. You simply can't make friends this way. Only blind fanatics may think this "Unique" policy will lead to something good but history says otherwise.


Let us see how things work out this time around.




No, Jews returned home and created their own country as was accepted by most of the world.


There were no fanatics in the early Zionist movement.  There were pioneers and businessmen who purchase land and created an infrastructure.  Your colorful descriptions only show your true prejudices.  The population of Israel is not the issue, it is the EXISTENCE of Israel that is unacceptable.  Deal with it.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 5:01PM #8
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Jun 20, 2012 -- 11:35AM, JRoadrunner wrote:

Over the past several decades Jews and Christians have built strong bridges with each other. Nevertheless, the churches represented in the article below (claiming 590 million worshippers) are threatening to blow up those bridges and basically return Christianity to many of its medieval virulently anti-Semitic prejudices (albeit some in new forms). 

Of course, Jews have so many fine Christian friends. But, then again, there are also those that are virulent anti-Semites (often hiding behind anti-Zionism), who besmirch their religious heritage and who are basically reviving all the worst parts of their tradition.

Therefore, thanks to those fair-minded Christians -- who hopefully are in the majority -- that
build bridges, not destroy them. 


The Churches Against Israel


The World Council of Churches, an ecumenical Christian body based in Genève and boasting 590 million worshippers, just ended a four-day conference in the Greek city of Volos...

Lutherans arrived to Volos from the United States, Catholics and Protestants from Bethlehem and Nazareth, Orthodox Christians from Greece and Russia, lecturers from Beirut and Copts from Egypt. The conference declared the Jewish State "a sin" and "occupying power," accused Israelis of "dehumanizing" the Palestinians, theologically dismantled the "choseness" of the Jewish people and called for "resistance" as a Christian duty.


The conference denied 3,000 years of Jewish life in the land stretching between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River, took sides against the very presence of Israel, likened the defensive barrier that has blocked terrorism to "apartheid," attacked Jewish homes in Judea and Samaria invoking the name of God and conceptually dismissed the Jewish state, imagining it to be a mixture - Islamic, Christian and perhaps a bit Jewish. It even legitimized terrorism when it talked about the "thousands of prisoners who languish in Israeli jails," proclaiming that "resistance to the evil of occupation is a Christian's right and duty." 


La Civiltà Cattolica, the Vatican magazine reviewed by the Holy See secretary of state before publication, in January opened with a shocking editorial on Palestinian refugees. Adopting the Islamist propagandist word "Nakba," just recently invoked by Arab mobs to breach Israel's borders, the paper declared that the refugees are a consequence of "ethnic cleansing" by Israel and that "the Zionists were cleverly able to exploit the Western sense of guilt for the Shoah to lay the foundations of their own state." Indeed, Ahmadinejad's rhetoric is alarmingly similar.

Israel’s relationship with the Vatican is different from Jerusalem’s relationship with Albania or Luxembourg for example, because the Catholic Church has more than one billion adherents and a global moral authority. At the Rome synod, Archbishop Cyrille Salim Bustros, a cleric chosen by Pope Ratzinger to draft the synod’s 44 final propositions, denied the Jewish people’s biblical right to the Promised Land. "We Christians cannot speak about the Promised Land for the Jewish people. There is no longer a chosen people", Bustros said, reviving the "replacement theology."


Edmond Farhat, a Maronite Apostolic Nuncio, who is a sort of Vatican's ambassador, described Israel’s place in the Middle East in terms of a rejected "foreign implant" that which has no specialists "capable of healing it."


Elsewhere, the current Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, Fouad Twal, named by Pope Ratzinger to represent the Catholic community in Israel and the West Bank, is sponsoring an appeal against the "Judaization of Jerusalem." Indeed, at this time, new anti-Israel policies by the most powerful Christian groups are breathing new life into Medieval doctrine that demonized Jews for hundreds of years.

The replacement calumny has changed its language, yet it still marks a death sentence for the Jewish people: Israelis, like Lucifer, were God's chosen but were cast out for their rebellious and evil ways, and now deserve to be obliterated from the so-called "Holy Land,” the argument goes. From Norwich to Itamar, the Jewish martyrs are an everlasting and heroic stain in this horrible, theological blood libel.



The World Council of Churches (WCC) have staunchly supported Communists and other radical anti western causes for decades. Back in the 1970's they supported leftist guerillas who murdered Missionaries and other Christians in Sub-Saharan Africa. Now they are supporting the Islamists who murder Christians in Nigeria and elsewhere.


The WCC is the Whore of Babylon which is "drunk on the blood of the martyrs of Jesus."  (Rev. !7:6)


When I was in the Presbyterian Church, it was the one time that I designated every penny of my tithe to the Building Fund of my local church. I simply refused to donate a single red cent to the WCC through the National Church or Foreign Missions. I refuse to support their bloody agenda.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 6:25PM #9
LeahOne
Posts: 16,242

Jun 21, 2012 -- 11:02AM, BDboy wrote:


Some of the claims of the article are a little overblown.


No one should deny that, Jewish people had some historical connection to the land. Like Christians and Muslims, they ALSO have spiritual connection to the land.


Albeit most Jews did not live on present Israel most of last 2000 years, we need NOT to deny their spiritual connection. That would be like the fanatic Jews who simply deny spiritual connection of Muslims and Christians to the land.


I said it many times, Israeli policies made Israel VERY unpopular to people keeps track of events in the holy land. Israel needs to find ways to win friends within the region and try to remove issues between non-Jewish natives and Jewish people.


A peaceful solution to current problems is the best insurance policy for long term sustainability of Israel.


In last 60 + years most churches have been very supportive of the state of Israel. Israel gotten away with a lot of naughty stuffs but Israel is not a spoiled teenager anymore.


People expect Israel to be an example for the region. A strong leader who inspires others by example. Sadly countries closer to Israel are not a fan and often been harmed by it.


I hope Israeli leadership will come it realize even a strong country like Israel has it's limitations.


People will not put up with some very unsavory practices by Israel


Sooner Israel realize it better it will be for them.





BD, basically the entire post above boils down into the one sentence in bold.


So you appear to be suggesting Israel needs to do as everyone OUTside her borders would have her do..... 


How is that any different that Jews living in a ghetto on the 'sufferance' of others?


 And how does that scenario acknowldge Israel's sovereignty as an independant nation?


PS -Israel is only 'strong' because of it's people's will to live - at peace, within their borders.  Why does Israel not fly combat missions over the WB?  Because nobody is shooting rockets into Israel from there.  Yes, it is as simple as that.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 6:54PM #10
LeahOne
Posts: 16,242

BDBoy - most of us are not buying your pretty little fantasy about what a wonderful 'co-existing' life our relatives used to have living among Muslims. 


Now, you can talk about 'pre-unification' Spain all you wish - but I'm not about to believe that one because I know *why* Maimonides had to leave Cordova to go to Egypt. 


The FACT is, it wasn't much different or better for Jews in Muslim lands than in Christian ones.  Either way we were officially NOT 'citizens' and our rights depended on the whim of absolute rulers.


Maybe you think that was 'good enough' and Jews should be grateful?  I disagree:  owning one's rights is a big improvement over having them on someone else's 'approval'.  One of the most ominous verses in Torah is this one:  "And there arose in Egypt a new Pharaoh, who knew not Joseph......"

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