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Switch to Forum Live View Wistful in Jerusalem
2 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2012 - 4:50PM #1
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,181

An abiding truth: Survival requires strength, vigilance and resolve.


Wistful in Jerusalem
Elliot Abrams  


Can Israelis be wistful? It is not the characteristic we usually associate with them; more typically they are said to be tough, sweet, angry, thoughtful, demanding—not wistful.
Yet that is how I am finding many during my current visit, as I asked them to analyze events in the region in which they live and what to do about them. They look north to Syria and see the savagery, the massacres, the now over 14,000 dead, and the world doing absolutely nothing. "You get no help in this region if you are weak," one IDF general said to me. "It is a reminder to us of just what would have happened to us and could still if we were not strong enough to defend ourselves. But now we watch as these women and children are slaughtered and no one acts to save them. We can't, for all the obvious reasons; it isn't up to us, it's up to the Arabs and to Europe and to you. And you do nothing."


full article:
www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wistful-jer...


Syria and the lack of an international response to the plight of the Syrians is a lesson even those of us who are the most ardent "peacenicks" need to learn.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2012 - 6:57PM #2
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

What's survival good for?


Are you a Social Darwinist of sorts?

tl;dr
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2012 - 11:22PM #3
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

The key quote from Rocket's post, and also from the linked article is...


' "You get no help in this region if you are weak," one IDF general said to me. "It is a reminder to us of just what would have happened to us and could still if we were not strong enough to defend ourselves. But now we watch as these women and children are slaughtered and no one acts to save them. We can't, for all the obvious reasons; it isn't up to us, it's up to the Arabs and to Europe and to you. And you do nothing." '


The Israeli general is 100% correct of course.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2012 - 12:00AM #4
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

Nobody is 100% correct unless speaking an information-free tautology...


To repeat: What is survival good for? What do you need it for?

tl;dr
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2012 - 12:16AM #5
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

Jun 20, 2012 -- 12:00AM, CharikIeia wrote:


Nobody is 100% correct unless speaking an information-free tautology...


To repeat: What is survival good for? What do you need it for?




Survival means continuing to exist, and enabling future generations to exist.  Without the ability and willingness to defend themselves the Israelis would long since have ceased to exist as a nation. It's not complicated at all.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2012 - 7:22AM #6
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

Point is, survival is not a "highest good" in any meaningful sense.


The means you pick for surviving determine the group that survives.


E.g., if you survive by using nukes, it will be cockroaches who survive.


If you survive by using colonialism, it will be arrogant assholes who survive.


Etc.


Think twice, before surviving, whether you really enable what is worthy to survive - or whether you selectively breed bottom feeders, bullies, or other unpleasant parts of a society.


It is more complicated than you seem to think, Ken.

tl;dr
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2012 - 9:35AM #7
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,181

Chari


The first order of business for people, groups, nations etc... is survival. If you are not alive you can not do anything. Choices on how you survive are important, however, they mainly concern the question as to whether you will survive. Survival includes both physical survival and spiritual survival.


Moderated by rangerken on Jun 20, 2012 - 10:19AM
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 12:59PM #8
BDboy
Posts: 5,809

Jun 19, 2012 -- 4:50PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


An abiding truth: Survival requires strength, vigilance and resolve.


Wistful in Jerusalem
Elliot Abrams  


Can Israelis be wistful? It is not the characteristic we usually associate with them; more typically they are said to be tough, sweet, angry, thoughtful, demanding—not wistful.
Yet that is how I am finding many during my current visit, as I asked them to analyze events in the region in which they live and what to do about them. They look north to Syria and see the savagery, the massacres, the now over 14,000 dead, and the world doing absolutely nothing. "You get no help in this region if you are weak," one IDF general said to me. "It is a reminder to us of just what would have happened to us and could still if we were not strong enough to defend ourselves. But now we watch as these women and children are slaughtered and no one acts to save them. We can't, for all the obvious reasons; it isn't up to us, it's up to the Arabs and to Europe and to you. And you do nothing."


full article:
www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wistful-jer...


Syria and the lack of an international response to the plight of the Syrians is a lesson even those of us who are the most ardent "peacenicks" need to learn.




 


>>>>>>>> What are the "Obvious reasons"? They are not Jewish or Israel is afraid of Aasad regime?


Israel simply does not want to get involved. Turkey and some other arab states are supporting the rebels against Bashar-al-Asad.


I don't see any "Obvious" reason why Israel (Being the strongest military power in the region) cannot even accept innocent victims and give them a "Safe space".

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 2:40PM #9
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,181

BDboy


If you want to know the obvious reasons, go back and read your past posts on this forum. If, after doing so, you still do not understand please let me know. 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 3:06PM #10
LeahOne
Posts: 16,396

BDBoy - Perhaps you can explain to me just where the idea of 'we can't help them because they're not Jewish' entered into your thinking?


YOU are referring to the Syrians' being nonJews as a possible 'obvious reason'.    WHY would you ever think that?

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