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Switch to Forum Live View Obama bypasses Congress to declare "Amnesty" for 800,000 illegals
2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 9:55PM #81
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,149

Jun 18, 2012 -- 8:14PM, rangerken wrote:


Jun 18, 2012 -- 8:08PM, TENAC wrote:


obama decides he doesnt like a law,


so he doesnt enforce the law.



What did his oath say?



And this isnt the first time. 




There is no moral difference between the above and not obeying a law one doesn't like.


Obama wishes he was a dictator not bound by a pesky consstitution.


Ken




Immigration has been the realization of the promise of America.  Immigrants, legal and illegal, have built this nation.  Each group has had to fight for it place in our culture and nation. The Irish were discriminated against as were the Italians, the Chinese, the Pole, and other Eastern Europeans etc.  Canada and Mexico have long been  routes around the immigration laws.


Black Africans were brought here as slaves, and when finally recognized as fully human were and are discriminated against. Immigrant groups formed societies, union,  and other organizations to find strength in numbers. The establishment used the labor of immigrates to build their wealth and when immigrant began to get power and status  they were discriminated.  Many Americans wanted to deport all the ex-slaves; The Chinese were brought in in large number to doth backbreaking hard work for building the railroads, were not allowed to bring in women and when the rails were laid  the Chinese were deported and otherwise forced out.   


In the 20th century when agriculture was back breaking  labor intensive, persons from south of the Rio Grande were welcomed to do the dirty work.  Now as  technology is relieving  some of  the hard work and th field laborers  are gaining  higher economic status and some political power , we want to keep them out and kick them outr.


 With high unemployment I do not see the migration of “Americans” to th fields of  California, Arizona, Florida and  South Texas.  In the Dust Bowl- Depression days of the 1930s we saw large migration of second generation immigrant move to those places to work . They had  grown up in  home of immigrant parent who knew that hard work  was  the real way to the American dream.


The great wealth was not built by people who  sat down and wrote out a business plan, and managed other.  It was built by person who did the dirty work,  work that other wanted the products of,  They applied  what they learned and saw while working and developed a business


Now the ”illegal “ immigrants  have learned the business of  agriculture. Lawn services , hotels, convenience stores   and the establishment want to keep them out an take over the fruits or the labor of  those who did the work.


 As Ken Burns pointed out in “The Civil WarA freed black slave in the Union Army saw his ex-owner being led away in chains as a prisoner and said to him, "Hello massa, bottom rail on top this time."

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 10:36PM #82
teilhard
Posts: 50,871

I betcha that IF it ever happened that a Sworn Licensed Police Officer stopped YOU for "Speeding" or "JayWalking" and DIDN'T issue a Citation (that would include a hefty $$$ Fine $$$), you would then indignantly COMPLAIN to The Chief of Police and The Mayor and The Attorney General and DEMAND that The Officer be FIRED or at least reprimanded, yes ... ???


uh huh ...


Jun 18, 2012 -- 9:55PM, Fodaoson wrote:


Jun 18, 2012 -- 8:14PM, rangerken wrote:


Jun 18, 2012 -- 8:08PM, TENAC wrote:


obama decides he doesnt like a law,


so he doesnt enforce the law.



What did his oath say?



And this isnt the first time. 




There is no moral difference between the above and not obeying a law one doesn't like.


Obama wishes he was a dictator not bound by a pesky consstitution.


Ken




Immigration has been the realization of the promise of America.  Immigrants, legal and illegal, have built this nation.  Each group has had to fight for it place in our culture and nation. The Irish were discriminated against as were the Italians, the Chinese, the Pole, and other Eastern Europeans etc.  Canada and Mexico have long been  routes around the immigration laws.


Black Africans were brought here as slaves, and when finally recognized as fully human were and are discriminated against. Immigrant groups formed societies, union,  and other organizations to find strength in numbers. The establishment used the labor of immigrates to build their wealth and when immigrant began to get power and status  they were discriminated.  Many Americans wanted to deport all the ex-slaves; The Chinese were brought in in large number to doth backbreaking hard work for building the railroads, were not allowed to bring in women and when the rails were laid  the Chinese were deported and otherwise forced out.   


In the 20th century when agriculture was back breaking  labor intensive, persons from south of the Rio Grande were welcomed to do the dirty work.  Now as  technology is relieving  some of  the hard work and th field laborers  are gaining  higher economic status and some political power , we want to keep them out and kick them outr.


 With high unemployment I do not see the migration of “Americans” to th fields of  California, Arizona, Florida and  South Texas.  In the Dust Bowl- Depression days of the 1930s we saw large migration of second generation immigrant move to those places to work . They had  grown up in  home of immigrant parent who knew that hard work  was  the real way to the American dream.


The great wealth was not built by people who  sat down and wrote out a business plan, and managed other.  It was built by person who did the dirty work,  work that other wanted the products of,  They applied  what they learned and saw while working and developed a business


Now the ”illegal “ immigrants  have learned the business of  agriculture. Lawn services , hotels, convenience stores   and the establishment want to keep them out an take over the fruits or the labor of  those who did the work.


 As Ken Burns pointed out in “The Civil WarA freed black slave in the Union Army saw his ex-owner being led away in chains as a prisoner and said to him, "Hello massa, bottom rail on top this time."





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2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 10:52PM #83
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Hello,



teilhard...


Ignore the question? Typical liberalism when confronted with the facts they turn and run. You Ignore my post. Strange? Cat got your tongue?? Yes, most are from Mexico, but many are from points unknown. Sit on it Potsie!! Maybe you live on Pluto??



love

Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 10:56PM #84
teilhard
Posts: 50,871

And the Funny of it is ... President O'Bama ISN'T from Kenya -- he's IRISH ... !!!


Jun 18, 2012 -- 10:52PM, loveontheair wrote:


Hello,



teilhard...


Ignore the question? Typical liberalism when confronted with the facts they turn and run. You Ignore my post. Strange? Cat got your tongue?? Yes, most are from Mexico, but many are from points unknown. Sit on it Potsie!!



love





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2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 10:58PM #85
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Jun 18, 2012 -- 10:56PM, teilhard wrote:


And the Funny of it is ... President O'Bama ISN'T from Kenya -- he's IRISH ... !!!


Jun 18, 2012 -- 10:52PM, loveontheair wrote:


Hello,



teilhard...


Ignore the question? Typical liberalism when confronted with the facts they turn and run. You Ignore my post. Strange? Cat got your tongue?? Yes, most are from Mexico, but many are from points unknown. Sit on it Potsie!!



love









Hello,



Here we go again...



love

Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 11:02PM #86
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,571

Yup.  If a lib doesn't have a good response, they usually go all emotional, dis, or mock.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 11:11PM #87
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Hello,



Fods...



I can Care less about Burns. I have not watched *any of his PBS shows. You gotta do better dude.



love



Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 11:29PM #88
christzen
Posts: 6,569

For myself, I see points for both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I have watched my profession and the related trades in construction ruined economically by illegal aliens coming in to work for lower pay. They long agp took over the concrete, framing,sheetrock,and masonry trades, and now have started taking over the electrical,plumbing,HVAC,steel erection,and many other trades. Soon the entire construction industry in the southern half of the nation will consist of illegal aliens working for a percnetage of what the wages were before they came in.


 


On the ohter hand, I wonder how many here who oppose this would have the willingness to be the ones going into schools, pulling out the 10 yr olds who have been here all their lives and know no other country, and tell them they are being sent back to their "homes" in Mexico,Honduras, Guatemala,etc ? Could I stick an 8 yr old on a bus for the border? I doubt it. can you,if you oppose Obama's action? Or will you expect others to do the dirty part for you  and let you continue to pretend it is a black and white situation of right and wrong,and enforcing the law?


 


And I wonder how many who want the illegals gone have a clue what it will do to the cost of things like foods,homes,motel rooms, items produced in factories that use illegals,chickens from Pilgrim's Pride manned by illegals,etc.? Do you really think the things you buy using their cheap labor will remain the same cost when wages double? If you can even get Americans do pick vegetables, clean toilets and motel rooms, work 10-12 hrs a day in 95 degree heat laying concrete,as hard and backbreaking work as there is,and one not many white boys out of school are cut out for these days.


 


I'm not a liberal crying over this: as I have said, I have seen my business nearly ruined by illegal aliens. But be careful what you wish for, when you meals at the restaurant go up 50 % and your veggie cost doubles, and new home costs skyrocket and then stall out the economy when people can't afford them.


 


The issue is not as nearly cut and dried as ideologues from either side wish to pretend it is.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2012 - 12:15AM #89
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,149

Jun 18, 2012 -- 11:11PM, loveontheair wrote:


Hello,



Fods...



I can Care less about Burns. I have not watched *any of his PBS shows. You gotta do better dude.



love


 Immigration is good for this country; it is the Major factor in American Greatness in many fields.   Immigrants, legal and illegal, built this country. Immigrants have a drive that is lost in subsequent generations.


And all you can comment on  is a quote from 20 year old PBS series. 






“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2012 - 12:25AM #90
solfeggio
Posts: 9,128

Fodaoson -


Your post going over the history of the so-called 'illegals' in America, with reference to what Ken Burns said in his terrific Civil War series, was spot on.  We have seen all the Ken Burns series here and even own the Civil War on DVD (bought from Amazon UK long ago).


I recommend anything that Ken Burns does.


What I have found depressing - not downright dismaying - about this thread was that there were so many responses from people lambasting those human beings just like themselves whose only 'crime' was that they were not born in America.


How provincial can you get?


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