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Switch to Forum Live View Women don't belong in Ranger School
2 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2012 - 11:51PM #1
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

Here is an article with which I agree.....

Women Don't Belong In ranger School

BUT, if, and only if, the requiements and curriculum in all respects is exactly the same for women as for men, then I'd have no problem with women going through and trying to graduate from Ranger School. I'm sure that there are a few, a very, very few, who might make it through.

But if there is the slightest 'gender norming', or lesser physical requirements, or special accomodations in the field made, then I'm totally opposed!

I found Ranger School excruciating, hard, extremely demanding, and in fact more physically challenging than combat (I had a year of combat experience behind me before going to Ranger school), and subsequently in my additional years of combat experience I never once was as physically challenged as I was in Ranger School. This is typical, and by design...just by the way...for the benefit of civilians who have no clue. My son found it the same, and I am glad to say, he found it harder physically than his time in Afghanistan. My wife, who was a superb army officer, and in superior physical condition, would not have made it through the first week of ranger school. Of course she had no wish to take up a space better assigned to a man who would fight as a ranger.

This opening up eveything to everyone for idiotic, feel good reasons is the kind of politically correct supidity that tends to get people killed, and weakens our military! And I'm all for women being able to perform any job in the military that they qualify to perform...as long as there are ZERO exceptions or dumbing down or lower standards involved. Women aviators do just fine, and they go through the same flight training as men go through...so OORAH for female aviators! But ranger school?????... well, if a woman can make it hrough, then OK...but again, NO lowering of standards or physical requirements.

And before someone who knows nothing tries out the 'well, some may be able to do it', I suggest they check out exactly what the requirements are and training is all about.

Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 7:43AM #2
Ironhold
Posts: 11,513

My stance on equality in the military?


One single standard for mental, physical, and emotional health, the only variable being "MOS".


Anyone who can meet that standard, regardless of age, gender, race, religion, or sexual preference, gets in.


Anyone who can't, so sorry.





(and before anyone says anything, I have a bad heart; I'm disqualified from military service just off of that)

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 7:56AM #3
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,626

75th RGR Bat....I was just there. 

*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 8:14AM #4
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

Jun 14, 2012 -- 7:56AM, mecdukebec wrote:


75th RGR Bat....I was just there. 




Very interesting, Mecduke... I had Marine Force recon along with my company a few times. Do you know some Marines who trained with or served with rangers?


And by the way, it's the 75th Ranger Infantry Regiment and it has several battalions, all with different, permanent home bases when not deployed, though deployments are usually at company level. One of the company commanders was my son's platoon leader some years back.


Which battalion, or separately deployed company were you visiting and where is it? I still know many serving rangers despite being retired now for twenty years (scary!!!) so perhaps you met a friend of mine.


And I agree completely with what Ironhold wrote if he means according to each MOS (military occupational specialty for those who don't speeak fluent millitaryese)..


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 9:04AM #5
TENAC
Posts: 25,839

Jun 13, 2012 -- 11:51PM, rangerken wrote:


Here is an article with which I agree with.....

Women Don't Belong In ranger School

BUT, if, and only if, the requiements and curriculum in all respects is exactly the same for women as for men, then I'd have no problem with women going through and trying to graduate from Ranger School. I'm sure that there are a few, a very, very few, who might make it through.

But if there is the slightest 'gender norming', or lesser physical requirements, or special accomodations in the field made, then I'm totally opposed!

I found Ranger School excruciating, hard, extremely demanding, and in fact more physically challenging than combat (I had a year of combat experience behind me before going to Ranger school), and subsequently in my additional years of combat experience I never once was as physically challenged as I was in Ranger School. This is typical, and by design...just by the way...for the benefit of civilians who have no clue. My son found it the same, and I am glad to say, he found it harder physically than his time in Afghanistan. My wife, who was a superb army officer, and in superior physical condition, would not have made it through the first week of ranger school. Of course she had no wish to take up a space better assigned to a man who would fight as a ranger.

This opening up eveything to everyone for idiotic, feel good reasons is the kind of politically correct supidity that tends to get people killed, and weakens our military! And I'm all for women being able to perform any job in the military that they qualify to perform...as long as there are ZERO exceptions or dumbing down or lower standards involved. Women aviators do just fine, and they go through the same flight training as men go through...so OORAH for female aviators! But ranger school?????... well, if a woman can make it hrough, then OK...but again, NO lowering of standards or physical requirements.

And before someone who knows nothing tries out the 'well, some may be able to do it', I suggest they check out exactly what the requirements are and training is all about.

Ken




I cannot personally speak to this, but Ken I will tell you,


this is not the America we live in.

Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 10:02AM #6
Cesmom
Posts: 4,714

Jun 13, 2012 -- 11:51PM, rangerken wrote:


Here is an article with which I agree with.....

Women Don't Belong In ranger School

BUT, if, and only if, the requiements and curriculum in all respects is exactly the same for women as for men, then I'd have no problem with women going through and trying to graduate from Ranger School. I'm sure that there are a few, a very, very few, who might make it through.

But if there is the slightest 'gender norming', or lesser physical requirements, or special accomodations in the field made, then I'm totally opposed!



Believe it or not, there are many women who would agree with that stance.  Not everyone thinks that physical requirements should be lowered so that women can be considered 'equal.'  It's not equal if you have to lower the requirements.


I obviously have no personal experience in the area, but I'm sure there are a rare few women who could do what it takes to go through Ranger School.  I think a woman who is willing to work hard enough can probably accomplish just about anything she wants, and she should be allowed to do so.  That's what women's liberation was originally intended to be about...not the watered down, 'everybody gets a ribbon', version of today.  

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 10:24AM #7
amcolph
Posts: 17,440

Excellent post, Cesmom.


I agree , but offer the following observation:


It is has not escaped the attention of minorities that there have been in some situations  "requirements" that restrict access to women, racial minorities, the disabled, etc. which are not directly job-related and impact those groups.  For example, if the requirement states "Must be able to lift and carry 100 lbs." but none of the men ever actually have to do it on the job, then women have a right to demand different standards.


Ken is an experienced Ranger and if he is convinced that the stringent training regime is necessary to success--and is not just a celebration of machismo--then I agree with him entirely.


 

This post contains no advertisements or solicitations.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 12:53PM #8
Ironhold
Posts: 11,513

Jun 14, 2012 -- 8:14AM, rangerken wrote:


And I agree completely with what Ironhold wrote if he means according to each MOS (military occupational specialty for those who don't speeak fluent millitaryese)..


Ken




Pretty much.


For each MOS, the military needs to determine one unified standard for physical, mental, and emotional fitness.


Anyone who can meet that standard is eligible for the MOS. Period.


Can't meet the standard? Maybe there's an MOS whose standard you can meet.


Et cetra.




As a joke, I was once toying with the idea of a sci-fi piece that touched on this stuff.


A UN-type organization has dispatched a female military officer to investigate a particular planet's military readiness in the event of a crisis.


To her horror, she notes that there are precious few women in the ranks; what's most, most of the women are in non-combat roles. As far as she's concerned, that's clear proof of overt sexism.


The male officer assigned as her liasion counters her by noting that it's actually a sign of the military being truly gender-neutral: each MOS has a single unified standard, and anyone of any gender, race, social group, or sexual preference who can meet the standard is allowed entrance. This has all but eliminated sexism in the military, as every single person in service knows that if a person holds a rank or position then they earned it the hard way.


Cue the UN organization as a whole being mighty embarassed at being upstaged in the "equality" department.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 2:20PM #9
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,626

Jun 14, 2012 -- 8:14AM, rangerken wrote:


Jun 14, 2012 -- 7:56AM, mecdukebec wrote:


75th RGR Bat....I was just there. 




Very interesting, Mecduke... I had Marine Force recon along with my company a few times. Do you know some Marines who trained with or served with rangers?


And by the way, it's the 75th Ranger Infantry Regiment and it has several battalions, all with different, permanent home bases when not deployed, though deployments are usually at company level. One of the company commanders was my son's platoon leader some years back.


Which battalion, or separately deployed company were you visiting and where is it? I still know many serving rangers despite being retired now for twenty years (scary!!!) so perhaps you met a friend of mine.


And I agree completely with what Ironhold wrote if he means according to each MOS (military occupational specialty for those who don't speeak fluent millitaryese)..


Ken




3rd RGR BN at Fort Benning, Georgia.  Very broken young men.  Terrified of the Army's treatment of their psych and musculoskleletal injuries.  Quite sad. --  Yes, I know Devil Dogs who've served with RGRs; I have a friend who's drugged up on Prozac, as part of PTSD issues, and he's a 19D.  Great guy.  Sad what combat has done to him. 

*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 4:37PM #10
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Hello,



I have two friends swerving in SP now. 1 with the 110th Mountain and another I can not say, sorry.  Women do not belong in combat and do not belong with Rangers or any other Special Forces Group, period. Naval Aviators ok. Back in the day I was all for women flying. Certainly, if they are allowed to join the *Standards must not be lowered. We know the failure rate for men.


Nice article Ken...



love

Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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