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Switch to Forum Live View Women don't belong in Ranger School
2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 10:11PM #21
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

Permit me to quote part of my opening post by way of repetition and emphasis...


"...if a woman can make it through, then OK...but again, NO lowering of standards or physical requirements."


If a woman can make it through ranger school, meeting and passing the same requirements as men, with no...absolutely NO...ZERO...special accommodations of any kind without the slightest exception... then I'd be willing for that woman to serve alongside my son if he was still on activer duty! And that's a lot harder for me to say than just being willing for her to serve alongside me (in my much younger personna of course).


And I never underestimate women. If men could get pregnant we'd have species extinction in one generation! (and NO birth control debate at all). And neither comment is intended as a joke! I've been married to a very tough, very smart, lady for over 39 years, who is perfectly capable of being a fine commanding offier, which she was, and of fighting, and if necessary killing...and she has done both!!!... BUT, Mary Clare could never qualify to be a ranger. Nor would she ever want to be.


Ken


Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 10:07AM #22
Jasr
Posts: 11,427

Jun 14, 2012 -- 10:11PM, rangerken wrote:


"...if a woman can make it through, then OK...but again, NO lowering of standards or physical requirements."




I agree with this completely, and what's more I think it applies to firefighters and welders too.


However...the "standards or physical requirements" must make sense...must be rational, and must be designed to the task and not for the purpose of excluding any capable group. I stongly suspect that for the special forces, this is already the case.


There are plenty of places in the military where women can serve with valor, where they can be challenged to the limits of their endurance and ability, and where they can develop as citizen soldiers.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 11:32AM #23
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

Jun 15, 2012 -- 10:07AM, Jasr wrote:


Jun 14, 2012 -- 10:11PM, rangerken wrote:


"...if a woman can make it through, then OK...but again, NO lowering of standards or physical requirements."




I agree with this completely, and what's more I think it applies to firefighters and welders too.


However...the "standards or physical requirements" must make sense...must be rational, and must be designed to the task and not for the purpose of excluding any capable group. I stongly suspect that for the special forces, this is already the case.


There are plenty of places in the military where women can serve with valor, where they can be challenged to the limits of their endurance and ability, and where they can develop as citizen soldiers.




We agree, Jasr.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 11:41AM #24
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Hello,



I part company here with many including Ken. As I have previously stated this is one Group that doesn't need *reformation. I agree with Jasr that there are many MOS' and other areas for women to serve with Valor and Distinction--just not in Special Forces. This is a *no brainer to me and as I have said earlier, this should be off the table. I believe I have made this perfectly clear and I know others are more sympathetic to this change than I am. Women can serve in other capacities. I have been in the NCO club hundreds of times. Several times with SP.



love

Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 2:18PM #25
Druac
Posts: 11,747

Jun 14, 2012 -- 8:02PM, REteach wrote:


Wow, Ken, I am impressed.


BTW, I agree that women who want to be Rangers need to meet all the criteria met by the men--although maybe I would draw the line at how they urinate. 




Actually...I have witnessed with my own eyes A women urinating right next to me and exactly as I was doing it (dropped her drawers, remained standing, and used one hand). I will leave out the details, but it is definitely doable! :)

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 2:34PM #26
Jasr
Posts: 11,427

Jun 15, 2012 -- 11:41AM, loveontheair wrote:


Hello,


I part company here with many including Ken. As I have previously stated this is one Group that doesn't need *reformation. I agree with Jasr that there are many MOS' and other areas for women to serve with Valor and Distinction--just not in Special Forces.




As far as I can tell, you have not parted company with anybody. We all seem to be in agreement here.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 2:38PM #27
Cesmom
Posts: 4,750

Jun 15, 2012 -- 2:34PM, Jasr wrote:


Jun 15, 2012 -- 11:41AM, loveontheair wrote:


Hello,


I part company here with many including Ken. As I have previously stated this is one Group that doesn't need *reformation. I agree with Jasr that there are many MOS' and other areas for women to serve with Valor and Distinction--just not in Special Forces.




As far as I can tell, you have not parted company with anybody. We all seem to be in agreement here.




If I understand correctly, Love is of the opinion that women should not serve in the Special Forces...even if a woman would happen to be the exception to the rule and be physically capable of meeting the requirements.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 7:17PM #28
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

If women can do the job, then so be it. However, let's be realistc, I don't think we will see any women offensive linemen in the NFL anytime soon.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 11:12AM #29
Cesmom
Posts: 4,750

Jun 15, 2012 -- 7:17PM, Marcion wrote:


If women can do the job, then so be it. However, let's be realistc, I don't think we will see any women offensive linemen in the NFL anytime soon.




LOL, true.  Just saying...there's always that one exception to the rule, and we should never say never.  ;-)

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 11:22AM #30
Ed.W
Posts: 9,436

Jun 14, 2012 -- 10:02AM, Cesmom wrote:



  It's not equal if you have to lower the requirements.






Jun 14, 2012 -- 10:24AM, amcolph wrote:


Excellent post, Cesmom.




I too thought it was priceless, Amcolph.

‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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