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Switch to Forum Live View Was America Always a Christian Nation?
1 month ago  ::  Jan 22, 2015 - 11:25AM #421
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,846

Copying & pasting Scripture isn't making an argument. It's called circular reasoning.

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1 month ago  ::  Jan 26, 2015 - 11:13PM #422
Roymond
Posts: 1,719

Jun 17, 2012 -- 11:53PM, mountain_man wrote:


Jun 17, 2012 -- 10:53PM, MysticWanderer wrote:

... Native Americans pre-European Invasion were no better and no worse than the Europeans themselves.


Which was pretty much my point. No matter if they were violent or not that is no reason to kill them off.


The native societies varied greatly. Some of the greatest, and some of the last, warriors were from here in California where they all got along (for the most part) peacefully. There was plenty of food to go around and the living was easy. Hunting acorns instead of buffalo didn't make them weak.


Much of our government is patterned after the Iroquois League. They were not as violent as some would have us believe.




One of the places I'd want to go to if I could journey back in time would be to the early days of the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois name for themselves) League, and provide bits of technology to boost their status with other tribes, then work to extend the League to neighboring tribes.  I'd continue to provide more technology to keep extending their reach, so that when the Mayflower finally showed up they'd be facing technological equals in a 'nation' reaching from the Carolinas to Newfoundland to Hudson's Bay, around the Great Lakes, through Ohio and down to Tennessee.

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1 month ago  ::  Jan 27, 2015 - 11:22AM #423
amcolph
Posts: 18,906

Jan 26, 2015 -- 11:13PM, Roymond wrote:


Jun 17, 2012 -- 11:53PM, mountain_man wrote:


Jun 17, 2012 -- 10:53PM, MysticWanderer wrote:

... Native Americans pre-European Invasion were no better and no worse than the Europeans themselves.


Which was pretty much my point. No matter if they were violent or not that is no reason to kill them off.


The native societies varied greatly. Some of the greatest, and some of the last, warriors were from here in California where they all got along (for the most part) peacefully. There was plenty of food to go around and the living was easy. Hunting acorns instead of buffalo didn't make them weak.


Much of our government is patterned after the Iroquois League. They were not as violent as some would have us believe.




One of the places I'd want to go to if I could journey back in time would be to the early days of the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois name for themselves) League, and provide bits of technology to boost their status with other tribes, then work to extend the League to neighboring tribes.  I'd continue to provide more technology to keep extending their reach, so that when the Mayflower finally showed up they'd be facing technological equals in a 'nation' reaching from the Carolinas to Newfoundland to Hudson's Bay, around the Great Lakes, through Ohio and down to Tennessee.




One of the difficulties you would have to contend with would be the infectious diseases--influenza, measles, smallpox--spread by pre-Columbian contact with Europeans which devastated native populations and disrupted their society.

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1 month ago  ::  Jan 27, 2015 - 1:47PM #424
Roymond
Posts: 1,719

Jan 27, 2015 -- 11:22AM, amcolph wrote:


Jan 26, 2015 -- 11:13PM, Roymond wrote:


Jun 17, 2012 -- 11:53PM, mountain_man wrote:


Jun 17, 2012 -- 10:53PM, MysticWanderer wrote:

... Native Americans pre-European Invasion were no better and no worse than the Europeans themselves.


Which was pretty much my point. No matter if they were violent or not that is no reason to kill them off.


The native societies varied greatly. Some of the greatest, and some of the last, warriors were from here in California where they all got along (for the most part) peacefully. There was plenty of food to go around and the living was easy. Hunting acorns instead of buffalo didn't make them weak.


Much of our government is patterned after the Iroquois League. They were not as violent as some would have us believe.




One of the places I'd want to go to if I could journey back in time would be to the early days of the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois name for themselves) League, and provide bits of technology to boost their status with other tribes, then work to extend the League to neighboring tribes.  I'd continue to provide more technology to keep extending their reach, so that when the Mayflower finally showed up they'd be facing technological equals in a 'nation' reaching from the Carolinas to Newfoundland to Hudson's Bay, around the Great Lakes, through Ohio and down to Tennessee.




One of the difficulties you would have to contend with would be the infectious diseases--influenza, measles, smallpox--spread by pre-Columbian contact with Europeans which devastated native populations and disrupted their society.




I figure we'd have a welcoming committee for when the Spanish showed up, ambush them all and hold them prisoner.  Then when diseases popped up we'd make vaccines.  Laughing

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6 days ago  ::  Feb 20, 2015 - 2:56PM #425
lucaspa
Posts: 570

Jan 27, 2015 -- 1:47PM, Roymond wrote:


I figure we'd have a welcoming committee for when the Spanish showed up, ambush them all and hold them prisoner.  Then when diseases popped up we'd make vaccines. 



You do realize that YOU would be the ones bringing diseases, right?  They might be different from what the original Europeans brought, but modern flu and even cold viruses would be just as deadly to that virgin population as any of the childhood diseases of the Europeans of the time.  


What the Amerindians would need is a welcoming comittee to kill all of you and immediately burn the bodies. 

"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault."  Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437

"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works."  James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, The Religious Aspects of Evolution, 2d ed. 1890, pg 68.
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4 days ago  ::  Feb 22, 2015 - 11:59PM #426
Roymond
Posts: 1,719

Feb 20, 2015 -- 2:56PM, lucaspa wrote:


Jan 27, 2015 -- 1:47PM, Roymond wrote:


I figure we'd have a welcoming committee for when the Spanish showed up, ambush them all and hold them prisoner.  Then when diseases popped up we'd make vaccines. 




You do realize that YOU would be the ones bringing diseases, right?  They might be different from what the original Europeans brought, but modern flu and even cold viruses would be just as deadly to that virgin population as any of the childhood diseases of the Europeans of the time.  


What the Amerindians would need is a welcoming committee to kill all of you and immediately burn the bodies.




The diseases coming would be inevitable -- Europeans would just keep coming.


BTW, I wouldn't be bringing any diseases; my time machine has a bio-filter, of course.  Cool

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