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Switch to Forum Live View Israel offers cash and a plane ticket to African migrants who willingly leave
2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 10:30AM #51
browbeaten
Posts: 3,094

Jun 21, 2012 -- 10:20PM, Miraj wrote:


The state won't let that poor man stop being a Jew, but, I've mentioned that situation before in other threads.  Talk about forced conversion lol.




You mean an African American can't wipe his black off?


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 1:54PM #52
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

Jun 22, 2012 -- 10:30AM, browbeaten wrote:


You mean an African American can't wipe his black off?



Nobody is so bound by his religion as we are bound by our body.


Or?

tl;dr
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 2:49PM #53
browbeaten
Posts: 3,094

Jun 22, 2012 -- 1:54PM, CharikIeia wrote:


Jun 22, 2012 -- 10:30AM, browbeaten wrote:


You mean an African American can't wipe his black off?



Nobody is so bound by his religion as we are bound by our body.


Or?




Heritage is not religion.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 3:20PM #54
KindredSai
Posts: 5,522

Jun 22, 2012 -- 12:03AM, Shusha wrote:


Non-Israelis, like the Sudanese, who are not children of Israelis are distinquished from non-Jews, with the ones determined to be "most Jewish" getting the specific right to citizenship...



The Right of Return laws pertain to immigration but not specifically to citizenship.  


...over non-Jews born within the borders of what was to become Israel in 1948.



Place of birth is irrelevant to Israeli citizenship law.  For everyone.  As it is in most countries in the world.  This is just a strawman. 




Yet this is overlooked by citizens of Israel who have left Israel at a state of war and are denied return because they non-Jewish.


In 1948 50-80% of the Arab citizens of Israel left fearing reprisals as well as being expelled and transferred. Unlike many of the Jewish elite which left and went to the US and returned shortly after retaining their Israeli citizenship, Arabs were denied because they were not Jewish.


Place of birth is irrelevant to citzenship I agree but but State succession laws factor generations and the Arabs had generations for the most part which were as long as Jews.


However I digress, I do think there's hypocrisy here, illegal immigrants are being pushed out because they are not Jewish. If they were Ethiopian and Eritrean Jews it would be a totally different story.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 4:18PM #55
browbeaten
Posts: 3,094

Jun 22, 2012 -- 3:20PM, KindredSai wrote:


Jun 22, 2012 -- 12:03AM, Shusha wrote:


Non-Israelis, like the Sudanese, who are not children of Israelis are distinquished from non-Jews, with the ones determined to be "most Jewish" getting the specific right to citizenship...



The Right of Return laws pertain to immigration but not specifically to citizenship.  


...over non-Jews born within the borders of what was to become Israel in 1948.



Place of birth is irrelevant to Israeli citizenship law.  For everyone.  As it is in most countries in the world.  This is just a strawman. 




Yet this is overlooked by citizens of Israel who have left Israel at a state of war and are denied return because they non-Jewish.


They are denied return cause they left so that Israel could be destroyed and are denied return because they are no longer residents and did not fullful the requirements of immigration to the newly formed State of Israel.


In 1948 50-80% of the Arab citizens of Israel left fearing reprisals as well as being expelled and transferred. Unlike many of the Jewish elite which left and went to the US and returned shortly after retaining their Israeli citizenship, Arabs were denied because they were not Jewish.


See above.


Place of birth is irrelevant to citzenship I agree but but State succession laws factor generations and the Arabs had generations for the most part which were as long as Jews.


Irrelevant.  The new State of Israel was formed.  They were attacked from all sides.  They secured their borders and instituted the immigration policy as was their right.


However I digress, I do think there's hypocrisy here, illegal immigrants are being pushed out because they are not Jewish. If they were Ethiopian and Eritrean Jews it would be a totally different story.


If they qualify for immigration, the are let in, if not, they are deported.  Why is this so hard for you to understand?





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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 6:08PM #56
Shusha
Posts: 4,510

Yet this is overlooked by citizens of Israel who have left Israel at a state of war and are denied return because they non-Jewish.



When the state of war ends, then we can talk.  They are not denied return because they are non-Jewish -- they are denied return because they pose a threat to the State of Israel. 



Place of birth is irrelevant to citzenship I agree but but State succession laws factor generations and the Arabs had generations for the most part which were as long as Jews.



The right to self-defence against hostile entities also exists in law.



However I digress, I do think there's hypocrisy here, illegal immigrants are being pushed out because they are not Jewish. If they were Ethiopian and Eritrean Jews it would be a totally different story.



Illegal immigrants are being pushed out because they are ILLEGAL.  This really is not rocket science.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 6:48PM #57
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,782

Stop complaining about Israel's immigration policies as they concern illegal immigrants. If you do not like them, you could at least answer the questions:


How would you suggest Israel deal with the problem of illegal immigration?


Is your suggestion the same for the USA?


Is it the same for Europe?


If not why not?


If you have nothing to add to the discussion, why are you discussing the question?  

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 6:56PM #58
KindredSai
Posts: 5,522

When the state of war ends, then we can talk.  They are not denied return because they are non-Jewish -- they are denied return because they pose a threat to the State of Israel. 


Nonsense.


The reason why they are declared a threat to Israel by the the right wing of Israel is because of the fact they pose a demographic threat because they are non-Jewish and that defies the notion of a Jewish State.


There is no evidence to suggest that Arabs pose a violent threat to the State of Israel considering the vast majority of Israeli-Arabs are peaceful and those that have been naturalised between 48 and 2012 have not committed violent acts against Israel.




The right to self-defence against hostile entities also exists in law.


Referring to a whole people as hostile by religious affiliation and ethnicity is not only false but ignorant amounting to direct prejudice.




Illegal immigrants are being pushed out because they are ILLEGAL.  This really is not rocket science



And my point is that they would not be illegal if they were Jewish. It's a double standards and a discriminatory factor of Israeli State Law.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 7:02PM #59
KindredSai
Posts: 5,522

Brow,


My point is that the immigration law of Israel is inherently prejudice.


While I accept that there are right of return policies for Eire, India and so forth. These do not involve the religious affiliation of the nationality. As I understand Israel is the only "democratic" nation in the world that ameliorates the position of a citizen on the basis of religion.


Case in point. If the illegal immigrants were Jewish, they would get better systematic treatment than they are now.


What part of this don't you understand?

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 7:04PM #60
KindredSai
Posts: 5,522

Jun 22, 2012 -- 6:48PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

Stop complaining about Israel's immigration policies as they concern illegal immigrants. If you do not like them, you could at least answer the questions:


How would you suggest Israel deal with the problem of illegal immigration?


Is your suggestion the same for the USA?


Is it the same for Europe?


If not why not?


If you have nothing to add to the discussion, why are you discussing the question?  


Rocket,


The reason why I don't like Israel's immigration policies are because they are inherently prejudice.


Secondly to do with illegal immigrants, apply a just law to them.


As somebody with a background in immigration and border agency, every individual is different, there maybe reasons for asylum, there maybe not.

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