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Switch to Forum Live View About That Individual Mandate
2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 10:14AM #11
arielg
Posts: 9,116
Jun  5, 2012 -- 10:44PM, aarroottoonn wrote:

And the right has the very likely fear that a) Obamacare will not only not bend the cost curve down, it will drive it almost vertically up, b) that due to a, rationing will happen, exactly as it does everywhere else there is nationalized care, and the problems associated with that.


 


Care should be rationed.  Why on earth, would the poor have the same care as the rich?  It doesn't happen in anything else in life.  That is why people want to get rich.  It has advantages.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 12:45PM #12
Jasr
Posts: 11,779

Jun 6, 2012 -- 10:14AM, arielg wrote:


Jun  5, 2012 -- 10:44PM, aarroottoonn wrote:

And the right has the very likely fear that a) Obamacare will not only not bend the cost curve down, it will drive it almost vertically up, b) that due to a, rationing will happen, exactly as it does everywhere else there is nationalized care, and the problems associated with that


Care should be rationed.  Why on earth, would the poor have the same care as the rich?  It doesn't happen in anything else in life.  That is why people want to get rich.  It has advantages.





Please tell me you are being sarcastic here...

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 1:12PM #13
Druac
Posts: 12,094

Jun 5, 2012 -- 5:43PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Mitt supports a mandate by the state, but not one by the federal gov't, which is in line with the conservative position...not that hard to understand. It's the conservatives that have criticized him that are in the wrong.




+1


While I disagree with them, I have to agree with your statements here.


The central government is not going away, as much as some on the right would love to see it. So the real answers are to make it work right for us ALL. But neither side of the career political system wants to cut what is important to their paymasters and their constituents...so we get to keep playing the political game that will sooner than later result in every one of us feeling the pain…in a big way eventually.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 1:14PM #14
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Jun 6, 2012 -- 12:45PM, Jasr wrote:


Jun 6, 2012 -- 10:14AM, arielg wrote:


Jun  5, 2012 -- 10:44PM, aarroottoonn wrote:

And the right has the very likely fear that a) Obamacare will not only not bend the cost curve down, it will drive it almost vertically up, b) that due to a, rationing will happen, exactly as it does everywhere else there is nationalized care, and the problems associated with that


Care should be rationed.  Why on earth, would the poor have the same care as the rich?  It doesn't happen in anything else in life.  That is why people want to get rich.  It has advantages.





Please tell me you are being sarcastic here...




Sorry Jasr, but  I am not.   It is what I observe in real life. It is not what I wish.  We have to start by acknoweledging what is before we can make any meaningful changes or the attempt would based on a falsehood. 


I believe in a universal health care safety net.  You cannot have that unless there is rationing. There would be no amount of money enough  to pay for everything for everybody.  Fact of life.


In the individual mandate system (big sell- off to the insurance companies) the insured will get what they pay for.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 6:54PM #15
aarroottoonn
Posts: 3,128

Jun 6, 2012 -- 10:14AM, arielg wrote:


Jun  5, 2012 -- 10:44PM, aarroottoonn wrote:

And the right has the very likely fear that a) Obamacare will not only not bend the cost curve down, it will drive it almost vertically up, b) that due to a, rationing will happen, exactly as it does everywhere else there is nationalized care, and the problems associated with that.


 


Care should be rationed.  Why on earth, would the poor have the same care as the rich?  It doesn't happen in anything else in life.  That is why people want to get rich.  It has advantages.




The poor also don't stay in 5 star hotels, eat caviar and filet mignon, or drives Lexus'. Money does have advantages, including the ability to have plastic surgery as another example.


Care shouldn't be rationed by bureaucrats who want to tell you how sick you really are, or in Canadian terms, that your knee replacement is a "cosmetic" procedure, and put you on a waiting list.


Beyond that, everyone should have access to a source of care, and in the US they do.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 7:03PM #16
aarroottoonn
Posts: 3,128

Jun 6, 2012 -- 9:18AM, Jasr wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 9:43PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


It doesn't matter what Romney said as Governor. He has said repeatedly that what is/was good for MA, is not necessarily what is good for TX.




That sounds like a good permanent excuse for Mitt. He can distance himself from his Massachusetts record forever.


How meaningless is a state level mandate, when uninsured patients from Nashua New Hampshire can show up at Mass General and demand to be treated?


The mandate was meant to be federal when the Heritage Foundation first proposed it, and Mitt Romney knew it when he imposed it im Massachusetts.




It isn't an excuse. It is fact. Hell, I would have said, I thought it was good for MA, but seeing as how we now have the highest healthcare costs in the country, can't manage who crosses our borders to get care that doesn't live here, haven't decreased the number of people who seek emergency treatment, and sit out paying the too low penalty, until they get sick, then can be denied insurance (leading to those highest healthcare costs), that the plan is an utter failure. But that is for the state to determine.


Your second paragraph is telling, because, as I mentioned above, that is happening. However that is an issue for MA to figure out.


I could care less what the Heritage Foundation may have meant when it was proposed; and Romney could only do what he did, as governor. Once again, if nothing else, we have a small taste of how bad the mandate really is, and should run from it in horror, not make it the national model.


Federalism is a wonderful thing, allowing the idiots in NY to, potentially, ban "big" sodas as a way to cut healthcare costs. I don't want that mandate here in CO, just as I doubt they want our Tabor law, to determine their governmental budgets.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 7:06PM #17
aarroottoonn
Posts: 3,128

Jun 6, 2012 -- 9:42AM, CharikIeia wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 9:43PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


It doesn't matter what Romney said as Governor. He has said repeatedly that what is/was good for MA, is not necessarily what is good for TX. It is federalism, pure and simple. Until the left understands that simple concept, there isn't much else to talk about on this topic.



In 2004, your ilk called this degree of nuance and context-sensitivity 'flip-flopping'.


Do you remember, if I may ask?




Many may still call it that. However, one must flip before you can flop. Read the words,"what is/was good for MA, is not necessarily what is good for TX" No flopping or flipping there, and not anywhere close to what pols on both sides of the aisles normally do. Did you remember Hillary being for it before being against the war? Obama, closing Gitmo, before he changed his mind? Etc, etc.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 10:46PM #18
teilhard
Posts: 51,381

During The 2008 Campaign, John McCain proclaimed, "Everyone should be required to buy Health Insurance ... "  (Yes, I know that is an accurate Quote, because I was both stunned and annoyed to hear him say such a Thing ...) ...


If People DON'T have or get "Health Insurance" SOMEWHERE and SOMEHOW ... what are they supposed to do ... ??? Just DIE ... ??? (though, presumably NOT in a Hospital or Nursing Home or Hospice, since there will be  NO  ONE   to pay The Bill ... So I guess they would die ... in a Cardboard Box under a Bridge ... ???)

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 11:37PM #19
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Jun 6, 2012 -- 9:59AM, amcolph wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 9:44PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


 


And the right has the very likely fear that a) Obamacare will not only not bend the cost curve down, it will drive it almost vertically up, b) that due to a, rationing will happen, exactly as it does everywhere else there is nationalized care, and the problems associated with that.




The right has the fear that Obamacare (or, if not Obamacare then some other leftist scheme) will allow the poor to have  medical care as good as the rich.



 





Hello,



It's funny, I thought healthcare went with jobs?



love

Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 11:40PM #20
teilhard
Posts: 51,381

Not so much, these Days ...


Jun 6, 2012 -- 11:37PM, loveontheair wrote:


Jun 6, 2012 -- 9:59AM, amcolph wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 9:44PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


 


And the right has the very likely fear that a) Obamacare will not only not bend the cost curve down, it will drive it almost vertically up, b) that due to a, rationing will happen, exactly as it does everywhere else there is nationalized care, and the problems associated with that.




The right has the fear that Obamacare (or, if not Obamacare then some other leftist scheme) will allow the poor to have  medical care as good as the rich.



 





Hello,



It's funny, I thought healthcare went with jobs?



love





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