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Switch to Forum Live View Palestinians: Refugees forever?
2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 12:57PM #1
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 14,515
It is long past the time that limits should be set on the never-ending expansion of Palestinian refugees. It is long past time that we recognized that the perpetuation of the "Palestinian Refugee Problem" has nothing to do with the Arab people who were dislocated when the Arab Armies attacked Israel in 1948 ( never mind the Jewish people who were dislocated - the UN has never bothered about them) and everything to do with preventing a settlement of the Arab/Israeli dispute. Why is the UN complicit in the Arab strategy to prevent a settlement?

Palestinians: Refugees forever?
The UN looks after millions who are classified as refugees, minimizing incentives to solve the Palestinian refugee issue and constituting an obstacle to future peace negotiations.
. . .
A couple of weeks ago the U.S. Senate Appropriations Committee unanimously passed the Kirk Amendment as part of the State Department and Foreign Operations Appropriations Bill for 2013. The bill requires the State Department to specify to Congress, for the first time, what proportion of the five million Palestinians who are supported by UNWRA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees, are refugees who were actually displaced from their homes and what number are descendant of those refugees.

Every year, a sum of $240 million of US public is channeled to the assistance of Palestinian refugees via UNRWA. The Kirk Amendment challenges the notion that being a Palestinian refugee can be passed down through the generations, and thereby questions the ever-expanding numbers of Palestinians that are UNRWA’s target group. The original proposal by Senator Mark Kirk (R-IL), would have made personal displacement from one's home necessarily for the definition "refugee" as well as the absence of any other citizenship.
. . .
UNRWA is an open-ended educational social welfare system for millions of Palestinians, primarily in the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. But in what sense are any of these individuals truly refugees, those who should fall within UNRWA’s remit?

Publicly, UNRWA defines a Palestinian refugee as anyone whose “normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.” In reality UNRWA has continually expanded the definition to include “the children or grandchildren of such refugees are eligible for agency assistance if they are (a) registered with UNRWA, (b) living in the area of UNRWA's operations, and (c) in need.” The best estimates are that perhaps 700,000 Palestinians became refugees in 1948-1949. By UNRWA’s accounting, however, virtually every Palestinian born since that time is also a refugee.
. . .
UNRWA has financial and political interests in maintaining this fiction: as long as the Palestinians are refugees, UNRWA is in business. Of the 30,000 people that UNRWA employs, the vast majority are Palestinian: UNRWA is the largest single employer of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Contrast this to the UN High Commission for Refugees, that only employs 5-6,000 people globally, and which focuses far more clearly on resettlement and rehabilitation of refugees and building new lives, and not on maintaining services that prop up the status quo.
. . .
full artilce:
www.haaretz.com/opinion/palestinians-ref...
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 1:30PM #2
Merope
Posts: 8,799

Off the top of my head, I think this article really points to the need for a Palestinian state (and, yeah, I favor a two-state 'solution').  These folks just can't be refugees forever, from all kinds of perspectives - economic, political, military, humanitarian, etc.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 1:56PM #3
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 14,515

Merope


The dirty little secret is that the vast majority of the "refugees" never were refugees. None of the descendants of the initial "refugees"  are really refugees, none of the relatives of the initial "refugees" are really refugees and no one knows how many of the original "refugees" actually were refugees. The entire Arab refugee construct was a crass political scheme designed to ensure that the "refugees" would never be settled and that the Arab wars against Israel could continue in perpetuity or until the Arabs managed to destroy Israel.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 2:13PM #4
Miraj
Posts: 5,023

Another crass construct is that Israel is the Jewish homeland.  If we do away with that crass construct, we can deal with the refugees by implementing the one-state solution for the good of all.  

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 2:18PM #5
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 14,515

Jun 5, 2012 -- 2:13PM, Miraj wrote:


Another crass construct is that Israel is the Jewish homeland.  If we do away with that crass construct, we can deal with the refugees by implementing the one-state solution for the good of all.  




Miraj


The difference is that it is true that Israel is the Jewish homeland. On the other hand . . .


But, it is good to know that you have not given up on your dream and the dream of your fellow Arab apologists of destroying Israel and the Jewish people. Consistency is said to be a good trait.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 2:22PM #6
Miraj
Posts: 5,023

Jun 5, 2012 -- 2:18PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 2:13PM, Miraj wrote:


Another crass construct is that Israel is the Jewish homeland.  If we do away with that crass construct, we can deal with the refugees by implementing the one-state solution for the good of all.  




Miraj


The difference is that it is true that Israel is the Jewish homeland. On the other hand . . .


But, it is good to know that you have not given up on your dream and the dream of your fellow Arab apologists of destroying Israel and the Jewish people. Consistency is said to be a good trait.




It's a silly argument that the one-state solution would destroy the Jewish people.  Most Jews don't live in Israel anyway.  They live in places where they enjoy being minorities, so, that doesn't seem to be an issue.


Israel can stay Israel.  It will just be an Israel that doesn't discriminate, and that would be a big improvement.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 11:19PM #7
habesor
Posts: 5,440

Miraj,


You get an "A" for effort  in trying to change the subject of this thread. I will try to bring it back. on topic.


The Kirk amendment is an impressive first step for ending the fraud perpetrated by the Arabs and the UN known as the Palestine refugee problem. It would have been even more impressive had the amendment refused to grant any more aid money until UNRWA was disbanded and the "refugees" were turned over to the UN High Commissioner on Refugees, to be dealt with as every other refugee in the world is . There is no doubt that Arabs and Jews were displaced by the fighting in 1948. But whereas the Jews rehabilitated its displaced persons from the fighting and the several hundred thousand Jews who were ethnically cleansed from the surrounding Arab states, the Arabs refused any and all programs for rehabilitation of refugees and the UN aided them in this "humanitarian" effort. 


Over the years in order to perpetuate the Palestine "refugee" problem, the definition of refugee has been expanded. One gets all sorts of odd situations as a result. Sirhan Sirhan, the murderer of Robert Kennedy, was considered and advertised as a Palestinian refugee. Before 1948 his father had moved the family from their ancestral village to Jerusalem where he rented a small apartment. Sirhan was born in Jerusalem. During the fighting the family left their rented apartment in what became the Jewish sector and moved to a larger rented apartment in another neighborhood of Jerusalem that fell under Jordanian rule, thereby becoming official refugees and eligible for UN assistance. A few years later Sirhan's father left for the USA where he worked for several years. With the money he saved he moved back with his family to his ancestral village, built a large home and opened a successful business. He was still considered a refugee and eligible for UN assistance. Sirhan was also considered a refugee though he was now living in his family's large home in the family's ancestral village. From here Sirhan, the refugee, left for university studies in the USA where he entered the history books.


If someone is serious about ending the refugee fraud they will forget about one state or two states (not one single "refugee" has been resettled in the almost two decades that the PA has been in existence and has received billions of dollars in aid money) and will instead see to it that the UN High Commissioner on Refugees resolve the refugee problem and disband UNRWA, which is there to perpetuate it.


Habesor

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 11:22PM #8
Miraj
Posts: 5,023

Jun 5, 2012 -- 11:19PM, habesor wrote:


Miraj,


You get an "A" for effort  in trying to change the subject of this thread. I will try to bring it back. on topic.




I did nothing to try to change to the topic.  One final way to stop the refugee problem is to make them Israeli citizens.  Problem solved.  Or, you could just continue to whine about it, but I started another thread about that.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 11:30PM #9
habesor
Posts: 5,440

Miraj,


At the end of the 1948 war there were about 50,000 Arab displaced persons in territory controlled by Israel. Those refugees were rehoused, given Israeli citizenship and are still referred to as Palestinian refugees in the current Palestinian narrative. So please, let's not argue that simply giving these people Israeli citizenship will solve the problem.


By the way, do you disagree with anything I wrote in my message? If so, can you explain why you disagree?  


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 5:43AM #10
BDboy
Posts: 4,585

Jun 5, 2012 -- 2:18PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 2:13PM, Miraj wrote:


Another crass construct is that Israel is the Jewish homeland.  If we do away with that crass construct, we can deal with the refugees by implementing the one-state solution for the good of all.  




Miraj


The difference is that it is true that Israel is the Jewish homeland. On the other hand . . .


But, it is good to know that you have not given up on your dream and the dream of your fellow Arab apologists of destroying Israel and the Jewish people. Consistency is said to be a good trait.




 


>>>>>>>>>> Israel WAS Jewish homeland in Biblical times. NOT in our times. Today Israel is the result of sad history of Europe (2nd world war) and political willingless of global powers. Jewish people DO have connection with the land (No one is trying to deny that). Christians and Muslims ALSO have a very real  connection to the land as well.


Also do make a note, Arabs were not able to destroy Israel for last 60+ years. I do not thnink they have to will power or military power to do that. HOWEVER Israeli policies may work as a catalyst in destroying the zionist dreamland.


Israel needs to change it's policies against non-jews of in and around Israel. At the end of the day, it is in Israel's best interest to find a peaceful solution to current (Mostly read estate) problem with it's neighbors.


 


Israel airport security demands access to tourists’ private email accounts

Moderated by Merope on Jun 06, 2012 - 01:29PM
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