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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 6:29PM #1
TENAC
Posts: 25,166
by using his power and position to endorse as a civil right something that is simply wrong."

So a questions....

Is it possible for obama to walk back his embrace of SSM and survive?

"Some things are bigger than the next election," the pastors said in their letter.

There will be a meeting.

obama is not a an African American in the same sense as these pastors.  Back when he was announcing his intention, and Sharpton questioned whether he was down with the struggle, this is what he meant (though Sharpton would be seen as a carpet bagger to the struggle by these pastors).
Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 6:47PM #2
aarroottoonn
Posts: 3,128

Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:29PM, TENAC wrote:

by using his power and position to endorse as a civil right something that is simply wrong."

So a questions....

Is it possible for obama to walk back his embrace of SSM and survive?

"Some things are bigger than the next election," the pastors said in their letter.

There will be a meeting.

obama is not a an African American in the same sense as these pastors.  Back when he was announcing his intention, and Sharpton questioned whether he was down with the struggle, this is what he meant (though Sharpton would be seen as a carpet bagger to the struggle by these pastors).



No, once he made his statement, Obama crossed the Rubicon. To go back now would piss off the uber left, and the gay community, which, between the two, have lots of money and votes. And probably not help him with opponents of his position either. He would simply be a flip flopper.


The black community is very much opposed to same sex marriage. Recent polls have "suggested" a movement toward acceptance. I see more of lying to pollsters. It is how you vote that matters, not whatever you say. In CA and NC, the black vote really swung the elections, and while individuals can have an epiphany, whole communities cannot.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 7:07PM #3
Druac
Posts: 11,313

Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:47PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:29PM, TENAC wrote:

by using his power and position to endorse as a civil right something that is simply wrong."

So a questions....

Is it possible for obama to walk back his embrace of SSM and survive?

"Some things are bigger than the next election," the pastors said in their letter.

There will be a meeting.

obama is not a an African American in the same sense as these pastors.  Back when he was announcing his intention, and Sharpton questioned whether he was down with the struggle, this is what he meant (though Sharpton would be seen as a carpet bagger to the struggle by these pastors).



No, once he made his statement, Obama crossed the Rubicon. To go back now would piss off the uber left, and the gay community, which, between the two, have lots of money and votes. And probably not help him with opponents of his position either. He would simply be a flip flopper.


The black community is very much opposed to same sex marriage. Recent polls have "suggested" a movement toward acceptance. I see more of lying to pollsters. It is how you vote that matters, not whatever you say. In CA and NC, the black vote really swung the elections, and while individuals can have an epiphany, whole communities cannot.




The reason it happened in California is because it was bank-rolled by the religious (Mormons mostly) from Utah and took advantage of the ignorant by scaring them into thinking their marriages would change or be affected by allowing gays to marry...straight lies by the religious to scare the flock...typical really…of course the Mormons did what they could to hide that they were bank-rolling it…or the "other" Christians might not have believed them so readily.


The polls swung hard the other way early on and many were lazy thinking there was no way it would pass in California...little did they know, scaremongering, lots of money and a very relentless misinformation campaign can work anywhere.


However, I think even the African American Christian Community is starting to wake up to reality...and hopefully will soon realize they are being used and played.


 



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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 7:12PM #4
TENAC
Posts: 25,166

Jun 1, 2012 -- 7:07PM, Druac wrote:


Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:47PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:29PM, TENAC wrote:

by using his power and position to endorse as a civil right something that is simply wrong."

So a questions....

Is it possible for obama to walk back his embrace of SSM and survive?

"Some things are bigger than the next election," the pastors said in their letter.

There will be a meeting.

obama is not a an African American in the same sense as these pastors.  Back when he was announcing his intention, and Sharpton questioned whether he was down with the struggle, this is what he meant (though Sharpton would be seen as a carpet bagger to the struggle by these pastors).



No, once he made his statement, Obama crossed the Rubicon. To go back now would piss off the uber left, and the gay community, which, between the two, have lots of money and votes. And probably not help him with opponents of his position either. He would simply be a flip flopper.


The black community is very much opposed to same sex marriage. Recent polls have "suggested" a movement toward acceptance. I see more of lying to pollsters. It is how you vote that matters, not whatever you say. In CA and NC, the black vote really swung the elections, and while individuals can have an epiphany, whole communities cannot.




The reason it happened in California is because it was bank-rolled by the religious (Mormons mostly) from Utah and took advantage of the ignorant by scaring them into thinking their marriages would change or be affected by allowing gays to marry...straight lies by the religious to scare the flock...typical really…of course the Mormons did what they could to hide that they were bank-rolling it…or the "other" Christians might not have believed them so readily.


The polls swung hard the other way early on and many were lazy thinking there was no way it would pass in California...little did they know, scaremongering, lots of money and a very relentless misinformation campaign can work anywhere.


However, I think even the African American Christian Community is starting to wake up to reality...and hopefully will soon realize they are being used and played.


 






Dru, you've got it just backwards.

Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 7:28PM #5
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,480

Jun 1, 2012 -- 7:07PM, Druac wrote:


Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:47PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:29PM, TENAC wrote:

by using his power and position to endorse as a civil right something that is simply wrong."

So a questions....

Is it possible for obama to walk back his embrace of SSM and survive?

"Some things are bigger than the next election," the pastors said in their letter.

There will be a meeting.

obama is not a an African American in the same sense as these pastors.  Back when he was announcing his intention, and Sharpton questioned whether he was down with the struggle, this is what he meant (though Sharpton would be seen as a carpet bagger to the struggle by these pastors).



No, once he made his statement, Obama crossed the Rubicon. To go back now would piss off the uber left, and the gay community, which, between the two, have lots of money and votes. And probably not help him with opponents of his position either. He would simply be a flip flopper.


The black community is very much opposed to same sex marriage. Recent polls have "suggested" a movement toward acceptance. I see more of lying to pollsters. It is how you vote that matters, not whatever you say. In CA and NC, the black vote really swung the elections, and while individuals can have an epiphany, whole communities cannot.




The reason it happened in California is because it was bank-rolled by the religious (Mormons mostly) from Utah and took advantage of the ignorant by scaring them into thinking their marriages would change or be affected by allowing gays to marry...straight lies by the religious to scare the flock...typical really…of course the Mormons did what they could to hide that they were bank-rolling it…or the "other" Christians might not have believed them so readily.


The polls swung hard the other way early on and many were lazy thinking there was no way it would pass in California...little did they know, scaremongering, lots of money and a very relentless misinformation campaign can work anywhere.


However, I think even the African American Christian Community is starting to wake up to reality...and hopefully will soon realize they are being used and played.


 






Well, it's hardly surprising that Wingoworld has not been informed of the NAACP, GEN Colin Powell, and the Rev Otis Moss III, all endorsing same-sex marriage.  But then, Wingoworld has a Wingosphere, and Rush. 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 9:24PM #6
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,399

Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:29PM, TENAC wrote:

by using his power and position to endorse as a civil right something that is simply wrong."

So a questions....

Is it possible for obama to walk back his embrace of SSM and survive?

"Some things are bigger than the next election," the pastors said in their letter.

There will be a meeting.



I rather suspect that any such 'meeting' would look quite similar to the 'meeting' in 2004 when Reverend Jesse Jackson met with a group of black pastors, and asked them how many had been asked to perform a same-sex wedding.


Not a single hand went up.


"Then how the heck did it get on our agenda in the first place," Jackson thundered.


Black churches are not only not being required to marry people contrary to their tenets, they aren't even being ASKED to.

Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:29PM, TENAC wrote:

obama is not a an African American in the same sense as these pastors."



I actually think that's true, but NOT in the sense you meant. Since his father was from Kenya, Obama is much closer to being an "African-American" than most of these black pastors who are probably twice removed from African descendants. Meanwhile, back at the topic, ...

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 9:26PM #7
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,399

Jun 1, 2012 -- 7:12PM, TENAC wrote:


Dru, you've got it just backwards.





Is that the "I know you are, but what am I?" argument ya got there?

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 9:30PM #8
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,399

Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:47PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


It is how you vote that matters




It is THAT they vote - on other people's rights and freedoms in the first place that is both an affront to the Constitution and an obscenity unworthy of the promise of America.


Shame on those that would subject human and civil rights to a popularity contest.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2012 - 8:43AM #9
TENAC
Posts: 25,166

Jun 1, 2012 -- 9:24PM, Do_unto_others wrote:


Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:29PM, TENAC wrote:

by using his power and position to endorse as a civil right something that is simply wrong."

So a questions....

Is it possible for obama to walk back his embrace of SSM and survive?

"Some things are bigger than the next election," the pastors said in their letter.

There will be a meeting.



I rather suspect that any such 'meeting' would look quite similar to the 'mSoeeting' in 2004 when Reverend Jesse Jackson met with a group of black pastors, and asked them how many had been asked to perform a same-sex wedding.


Not a single hand went up.


"Then how the heck did it get on our agenda in the first place," Jackson thundered.


Black churches are not only not being required to marry people contrary to their tenets, they aren't even being ASKED to.


So what is your point?  This isnt about who would or wouldnt marry people.  If Black or White or any church would refuse to marry ss couples, should they possibly lose their tax exempt status?


This is about obama losing support of his primary constituency due to his embrace of ssm.  If obama is faced with losing 25% - 30% of Black Americans or the 2.0% of the population that is gay, now knowing obama is a man of few if any convictions, how does that make you feel?  Used?

Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:29PM, TENAC wrote:

obama is not a an African American in the same sense as these pastors."



I actually think that's true, but NOT in the sense you meant. Since his father was from Kenya, Obama is much closer to being an "African-American" than most of these black pastors who are probably twice removed from African descendants. Meanwhile, back at the topic, ...


I agree, obama is far more African than American.  On a side note, I think these pastors are genuinely seeing as black Americans have moved forward, despite democrats efforts to the contrary, through the policies of this administration, black Americans will never be able to realize the great beneftis this country affords them because the entire economic power house is being reduced.  The paths to success are becoming fewer for all and less available.  I find it ironic that as black Americans are being shut down by the first black American president.  I said it when he was first elected, it is a shame barrack obama became the first US president who happened to be black.  A uniter!??  pffffft!   Look at his administration and consider only his DOJ.  


Come on November.


For ALL Americans.





Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2012 - 11:16AM #10
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,399

Jun 2, 2012 -- 8:43AM, TENAC wrote:


Jun 1, 2012 -- 9:24PM, Do_unto_others wrote:


Jun 1, 2012 -- 6:29PM, TENAC wrote:

..."Some things are bigger than the next election," the pastors said in their letter.

There will be a meeting.



I rather suspect that any such 'meeting' would look quite similar to the 'Meeting' in 2004 when Reverend Jesse Jackson met with a group of black pastors, and asked them how many had been asked to perform a same-sex wedding.


Not a single hand went up.


"Then how the heck did it get on our agenda in the first place," Jackson thundered.


Black churches are not only not being required to marry people contrary to their tenets, they aren't even being ASKED to.



So what is your point? 


My point is, what business is other people's marriages, and other people's religions that perform them - to those who would not? Why has the "comfort level" of another faith to do with the civil and human rights and freedoms (religious and otherwise) of other people who are not members of the churches of the 'uncomfortable'? Speak to me of OUR freedom of belief. Why should we be forced - by law - to abide by the tenets of a faith to which we do not subscribe?


 This isnt about who would or wouldnt marry people. 


Apparently, it IS, to the signatories of that letter.


 If Black or White or any church would refuse to marry ss couples, should they possibly lose their tax exempt status?


Why should they? Is anyone asking them to lose their tax exempt status for not marrying same-sex couples? (Especially since, as I pointed out, they're NOT even being ASKED to do so to begin with, nevermind being FORCED to.) Are Catholic Churches being asked to lose their tax-exempt status for not marrying non-Catholics or divorced people? Are Othodox Jewish synagogues being asked to give up their tax-exempt status for not performing inter-faith marriages now?


This is about obama losing support of his primary constituency due to his embrace of ssm.  If obama is faced with losing 25% - 30% of Black Americans or the 2.0% of the population that is gay, now knowing obama is a man of few if any convictions, how does that make you feel?  Used?


I don't "feel" anything when people postulate conjecture that is unlikely ever to happen, apart from sympathy for the poor soul who posited such nonsense in the first place. Black Americans are smart enough to look at the Rom-ter-ney-tive and come to their senses.

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