Jun 14, 2012 -- 12:25PM, Bodean wrote:

Jun 14, 2012 -- 11:38AM, Find1Answer wrote:

 

all these absolutes about human sexuality are just an attempt to fit the stereotype.    I call it stereotype because you attempt to be SUCH an expert on sexuality based on your notion of normal.      

.

No findone .. I"m no expert, and I don't pretend to be.  But I am smart enough to quote the experts.  I'm also open minded enough to educate myself about issues ... hence why you find my post choc full of references.

It wasn't I who said homosexual is not normal ... it was the members of the APA prior to their being ousted by pro-activists psychologist and concerted political activists group that raided the APA meetings for 3 years.  As noted in the link posted earlier .. Homosexuality was not removed from the DSM because the APA had an epiphany and suddenly decided that it was no longer a disorder, based on medical science, etc.  NOPE .. it was purely based in politics. [there words .. not mine].

As on of the other Psychiatrists noted, it seems we are just out to abolish "labels" that hurt people's feelings. ... but that doesn't change what the label represents.

ALL of the data, studies, etc I've posted are not my own thoughts, they are expert conclusions and studies based on work from non-interested parties with regards to this issue.  Other's are interested in the issue, but their data is valid none the same.

IMO .. I really think that advocates for this movement would probably move forward a lot faster if they stopped calling or insinuating  that the opponents and their comments are ... racists, sexists, homophobe, knuckle dragging, retarded, bigots.  Such remarks just harden the reserve for which opponents fight to support their own values and views.

Denying that you are  our resident expert on homosexuality with all your references and statistics you certainly have an ironclad opinion on the matter.   at least on this thread,   anyone else on this thread bulldogging the issue with all your facts on how all homosexuals all act and all feel all the time?     it is based on your notion of tradition and what is normal.  normal   as per your APA references as to  normal sexual behavior which because the issue has evolved... you claim and no surprise here.... the change in classification is all a leftist plot.  

You do not need to respond to my posts with     

they stopped calling or insinuating  that the opponents and their comments are ... racists, sexists, homophobe, knuckle dragging, retarded, bigots.  Such remarks just harden the reserve for which opponents fight to support their own values and views

because I have not called anyone that or accused anyone of those terms.    I do not even base my argument on the issue on those aspects.     

If only those who are so strongly opposed to same sex marriage could look beyond the religous and political aspects and the false assumptions about who gay people are, and appreciate the human side of the debate.  There are good people out there who can't control that they were born different, and they just want to be able to have homes and families and lives like the rest of us.  I guess I've just met too many people who weren't out to prove a point or lead a march or change the world...they just want to live their lives like the rest of us, and a lot of things end up being stacked against them in trying to do so.  It's unfortunate.

Jun 14, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Cesmom wrote:

I guess I've just met too many people who weren't out to prove a point or lead a march or change the world...they just want to live their lives like the rest of us, and a lot of things end up being stacked against them in trying to do so.  It's unfortunate.

Yeah .. I"m guilty of trying to prove a point. [hence the references].

In respect for you position however, the points I usually try to prove are micro points. ... relevant, sort of ...but not game changers for anyone with regards to opinion.

BUT ...

Who is it in this debate that is trying to "change the world" or "lead a march"????

In reality ... if we stripped "marriage" out of life all together [a position I'm not opposed to], I'd say most all people are living like all other people.  They do their thing ... we do our thing.  They go to work .... we go to work, and sometimes we work with each other.

Jun 14, 2012 -- 5:18PM, Bodean wrote:

Jun 14, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Cesmom wrote:

I guess I've just met too many people who weren't out to prove a point or lead a march or change the world...they just want to live their lives like the rest of us, and a lot of things end up being stacked against them in trying to do so.  It's unfortunate.

Yeah .. I"m guilty of trying to prove a point. [hence the references].

In respect for you position however, the points I usually try to prove are micro points. ... relevant, sort of ...but not game changers for anyone with regards to opinion.

BUT ...

Who is it in this debate that is trying to "change the world" or "lead a march"????

In reality ... if we stripped "marriage" out of life all together [a position I'm not opposed to], I'd say most all people are living like all other people.  They do their thing ... we do our thing.  They go to work .... we go to work, and sometimes we work with each other.

Actually, when I referenced changing the world or leading a march, I was thinking more of LGBT activists.  The gay people I know aren't out to prove a point or throw anything in anyone's face.  They are real live individuals who just want to be allowed to live like the rest of us.  I think it's too easy for those folks to get lost in this big political debate.

Jun 14, 2012 -- 5:46PM, Bodean wrote:

Jun 14, 2012 -- 5:26PM, Cesmom wrote:

Jun 14, 2012 -- 5:18PM, Bodean wrote:

Jun 14, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Cesmom wrote:

I guess I've just met too many people who weren't out to prove a point or lead a march or change the world...they just want to live their lives like the rest of us, and a lot of things end up being stacked against them in trying to do so.  It's unfortunate.

Yeah .. I"m guilty of trying to prove a point. [hence the references].

In respect for you position however, the points I usually try to prove are micro points. ... relevant, sort of ...but not game changers for anyone with regards to opinion.

BUT ...

Who is it in this debate that is trying to "change the world" or "lead a march"????

In reality ... if we stripped "marriage" out of life all together [a position I'm not opposed to], I'd say most all people are living like all other people.  They do their thing ... we do our thing.  They go to work .... we go to work, and sometimes we work with each other.

Actually, when I referenced changing the world or leading a march, I was thinking more of LGBT activists.  The gay people I know aren't out to prove a point or throw anything in anyone's face.  They are real live individuals who just want to be allowed to live like the rest of us.  I think it's too easy for those folks to get lost in this big political debate.

Agreed, and it is a point I've tried to make as well!  That was the whole point on the studies that even in Nations where full marrital rights are conferred to GLBT ... fewer than 5% of them take advantage of it ... BECAUSE ... as you said .. they really just want to do their own thing free of harrassment.  They just want to live and let live.

But .. that's not good enough for some.  The leading the parade and "change the world" is at the hands of activists ... and much to TH's dismay ... I'll say it .. LEFTISTS activists.  [LOL].  The Log Cabin Folk support Gay Marriage, but they aren't out leading the way on it.  They aren't organizing riots at the APA to make any changes. .. or organizing protest at other gatherings for the mere purpose of disrupting someone else's party, just because they disagree with a stance.

This is where we differ, though, because I believe that, sometimes allowing them to do their own thing requires that we acknowledge the legitimacy of their commitments and their families.  When we refuse to do that, they have to deal with roadblocks to doing their own thing, like raising children, sharing health benefits, and being considered next of kin for medical purposes, just to name a few.

The people I know just want to be able to provide for their families the same way that I would want to provide for mine, but there are those who would choose not to allow them to.  Then, there are those LGBT activists who insist on squabbling about what terminology we use.  I don't care if it's called marriage, but I do care if it includes the same rights.