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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 3:55PM #1
vra
Posts: 6,403

Should there be some outside intervention with Syria or not?  From CNN today:


(CNN) -- A witness to the brutal massacre in the Syrian town of Houla which left more than 100 people dead, many of them women and children, says he fears the killing will continue unless the international community takes action.


"We are human beings, not animals," Mahmoud Al Houli told CNN by telephone. "I would like to call for the international community and the U.N. to save our souls, to help us find a solution. We only want freedom."


He said conditions in Houla were "desperate," with medical supplies and food running low, and a build-up of military personnel in the area leaving residents dreading a second wave of attacks.


"We are very afraid that there will be another massacre," Al Houli added. "Military reinforcements have been brought in, and artillery, and we are afraid that the massacre will happen again."


On Tuesday, a United Nations official said it was "clear" that Syrian government forces were involved in the slaughter last Friday, which he said was "an abominable crime."... --www.cnn.com/2012/05/29/world/meast/syria...

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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 5:57PM #2
KindredSai
Posts: 5,522

You cannot have intervention without getting Russia and China on board.


That being said, I think the McCain Strategy of arming the resistance than a foreign intervention may seem an alternative.

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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 7:11PM #3
LeahOne
Posts: 16,280

Why, KSai - what are Russia and China going to do, go to war with the entire rest of the world? 


Or are they going to arm Assad with their latest goodies?


The BIG question I see is, how are those regimes going to convince anyone else that they are acting with compassion for human rights of Syrian people?


I SINCERELY HOPE that other Arabs and Muslim peoples are not so foolish as to believe either regime.....but as neither the Arab nor Muslim worlds appear to be bastions of free speech or uncensored 'information' via state-owned media, I tend to doubt they will get much opportunity to see that Russia and China can always be trusted *to have their own and ONLY their own interests in mind when choosing a course of action*.


Let's face it:  the ex-Marxists and the Maoists are backing the wrong side here.  Assad is a heinous butcher and a tyrant.  And 'the East' is showing themselves no different and no better than 'the West' when it comes to pet tyrants.  In fact, they seem to not even be as good as the West......


The problem I see is that the only 'third way' which is guaranteed different is that of religious fascism - which isn't particularly good for the common people either. 

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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 7:22PM #4
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

May 29, 2012 -- 5:57PM, KindredSai wrote:


You cannot have intervention without getting Russia and China on board.


That being said, I think the McCain Strategy of arming the resistance than a foreign intervention may seem an alternative.




Neither Russia nor China were 'on board' when NATO acted in Bosnia and Lybia.


I do prefer McCain's strategy.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 7:28PM #5
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,780

I am not sure which is the "right" side in the Syrian civil war, but I sure as shooting know which is the wrong one. The wrong side is the one which russia is backing to the hilt, the butchers of the Assad regime. 


The longer this thing drags out, the more probable it is that Syria will end up as another Lebanon with a sectarian civil war followed by an uneasy and unreliable pseudo peace as the sides prepare to re-engage. It is essential that we get Assad out of there before the opposition groups splinter into their sectarian groups Shia, Sunni, Shia-Alawite, Christian, etc... and before certain ethnic and religious groups become synonymous with the brutal dictator which will curse them to decades of oppression.


By the way, does anyone know why the Iranians are more than happy to support and arm the heretical (at least by their terms) Alawites in Syria but are bound and determined to exterminate the heretical (at least by their terms) Baha'is, Babis, Bektashis, and Ahmadis? Is it politics or is there something else going on?


 


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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 9:55PM #6
Amin21
Posts: 4,643

May 29, 2012 -- 5:57PM, KindredSai wrote:


You cannot have intervention without getting Russia and China on board.


That being said, I think the McCain Strategy of arming the resistance than a foreign intervention may seem an alternative.




Or just do intervention without the UN tell China and Russia where they can shove their objections.


But on that note half the opposition (those outside Syria) are opposed to intervention.  That doesn't mean they care on the street where they are being murdered but I must assume from come slogans... or where Sunni areas now have to pay for expired deadly medicine or drugs meant for animals, because the regime is basically taxing them to live in order to continue murdering other Sunnis, the predictable results of sanctions on a regime bereft of morals, with continued tacit approval and weapons support from the Kremlin.


Perhaps the best option is send in some navy seals to capture Assad and his top assistants alive secretly and then turn them over to the opposition.  I am sure the follow on video would be entertaining.

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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 10:05PM #7
Amin21
Posts: 4,643

Leah,


a variety of outlets in the Arab media have done a wonderful job covering Assad's atrocities, and as Jazeera was one of America's biggest critics in the Iraq war, I have to say that they are if anything consistant. 


In some ways I have seen more platitudes in the English language media from Jazeera (which leans left of CNN and right of RT but still anti-Assad for the most part) than on the Arab site which takes a hard stance against Assad.


The Houla massacre was nothing new either way... 100s of such events have occurred, but since we got Russia to push Syria to let in monitors we now have outside observers who can see the bodies... something we didn't get with the Arab league delegation vetted by Assad himself as a pre-condition to their presence.


Of course Syrian TV claims "al Qaeda" or "Sunni Extremists" killed these people... in a Sunni town who were anti-Assad...


In Iraq...  Al-Qaeda went after Shia marketplaces... but if we believe the Syrian government they go after anti-Assad Sunnis...


Oh wait... double speak... according to the Syrian Government it was a pro-Assad area... well now their is question... because Assad stated the opposed which means there are "conflicting narratives"

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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 10:16PM #8
LeahOne
Posts: 16,280

Amin, I am so glad to see you posting!  And I'm glad to be mistaken about the ability of Arab media to get the word out - I only wish there were different 'word' to be spread : ((


In my view, it's NOT as simple as 'Assad is anti-Israel so he must be bad':   I think Assad is bad for Syria, for the Arab world, for the human race.  And the fact that other Arabs can look at his actions and see the same thing actually gives me hope:  if we can see a problem in common, them maybe we can see positives in common.  And that's where we can build on, to improve situations.


 


  His 'anti-Israel' stance has NOTHING to do with my revulsion for Assad.  The fact that he's an 'inheriting dictator' is more than enough.


  I try to NOT view the world with a single 'litmus test'.  And I really believe that many individual Arabs and Muslims are not 'anti-Israel' so much as it's simpler for them to nod & agree because they're not really in a position to do much one way or the other.  I think most of us are not very inclined to buck a trend in our societies.....


 

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2 years ago  ::  May 30, 2012 - 12:46AM #9
LeahOne
Posts: 16,280

It seems the murders in Houla were committed by Syrian 'militia' - supporters of Assad - *aided and abetted by Iranian thugs* (this should surprise no one!)


Many Western nations have tossed out the Syrian ambassadors in disgust.


Even the Russians are backing away from Assad now. 

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2 years ago  ::  May 30, 2012 - 2:32AM #10
Amin21
Posts: 4,643

One can hope Russia will back away...


but my hope doesn't tend to extend towards Russia...

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