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Switch to Forum Live View Rich guy's TED talk: it is consumers, not rich people, who create jobs.
2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2012 - 11:23PM #31
aarroottoonn
Posts: 3,128

May 21, 2012 -- 7:59PM, REteach wrote:


Same argument that Buffett et al has made.  I also cannot see how people can claim "class warfare" when one class is saying "geeze, guys, we have enough."




Buffett is one person, not one class, and he represents the .01 of 1%. If one reads enough you would hear the battles that go on between them and the 1% (say the difference between those that make many millions a year, and those that make 1-2 million) Not to mention those that "only" make 300-400 K a year. Those are not people that can be out of work for a year or more and not really feel it. And they don't have many nice things to say about Buffett attempting to speak for them.

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2 years ago  ::  May 23, 2012 - 8:43AM #32
Cesmom
Posts: 5,096

May 22, 2012 -- 11:19PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


May 22, 2012 -- 5:02PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 20, 2012 -- 11:06AM, aarroottoonn wrote:


I made it to the :50 mark before shutting it off for utter stupidity. He said that those who think, "the rich are job creators and should not be taxed..." Nobody is saying that. Nobody. At all. Ever.


Such hyperbole just exposes him as another idiot talking about things he obviously has no knowledge of, or understanding.




Well, it's too bad that you missed out on the rest of his speech, then.  It was pretty insightful.  He made his points well.  Businesses will always operate with as few employees as possible.  A business will be incented to hire more people when increased consumer demand requires them to do so, not when they benefit from a tax cut.




Businesses don't always operate with as few a people as possible. If so, they would never be able to lay anyone off in troubled times. I don't know anyone who doesn't argue that increased demand incents employers to hire, but as Eaton today, and other companies in the recent past are showing, our tax rates disincent companies from doing keeping jobs here, and repatriating monies made overseas.


Smart businesses do operate with as few employees as possible.  In fact, I would say that a business owner who isn't doing everything in their power to control costs, including payroll, simply isn't doing their job right.  I don't care how many tax breaks you get...it all comes down to how many people you need to operate your business.  More demand = a need for more people.


We live in an increasingly global economy, and all factors need to be taken into consideration. Just as people mistakenly say capitalism is supposed to create jobs where are they? as they solely look at the US (the fact is they are being created, just not necessarily in the US), they mistakenly say that US consumer demand is needed (funny as that is how the whole credit bubble started), when in fact that demand could come from anywhere in the world. It is high time the US stopped being the buyer of last resort.


First, putting the super-rich in a high tax bracket is not the same as raising corporate tax rates.  Second, the U.S. only has high corporate taxes on paper.  By the time these companies jump through all the fancy loops that were created to benefit them, some of them pay no taxes at all.  U.S. businesses pay below average taxes, all things considered.  Yet, we are still seeing our jobs taken overseas.  So what's the answer to that?  Oh, I know...consumer demand...like consumers need to demand that what they buy was actually made here.





Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  May 23, 2012 - 7:00PM #33
aarroottoonn
Posts: 3,128

May 23, 2012 -- 8:43AM, Cesmom wrote:


May 22, 2012 -- 11:19PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


May 22, 2012 -- 5:02PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 20, 2012 -- 11:06AM, aarroottoonn wrote:


I made it to the :50 mark before shutting it off for utter stupidity. He said that those who think, "the rich are job creators and should not be taxed..." Nobody is saying that. Nobody. At all. Ever.


Such hyperbole just exposes him as another idiot talking about things he obviously has no knowledge of, or understanding.




Well, it's too bad that you missed out on the rest of his speech, then.  It was pretty insightful.  He made his points well.  Businesses will always operate with as few employees as possible.  A business will be incented to hire more people when increased consumer demand requires them to do so, not when they benefit from a tax cut.




Businesses don't always operate with as few a people as possible. If so, they would never be able to lay anyone off in troubled times. I don't know anyone who doesn't argue that increased demand incents employers to hire, but as Eaton today, and other companies in the recent past are showing, our tax rates disincent companies from doing keeping jobs here, and repatriating monies made overseas.


Smart businesses do operate with as few employees as possible.  In fact, I would say that a business owner who isn't doing everything in their power to control costs, including payroll, simply isn't doing their job right.  I don't care how many tax breaks you get...it all comes down to how many people you need to operate your business.  More demand = a need for more people.


We live in an increasingly global economy, and all factors need to be taken into consideration. Just as people mistakenly say capitalism is supposed to create jobs where are they? as they solely look at the US (the fact is they are being created, just not necessarily in the US), they mistakenly say that US consumer demand is needed (funny as that is how the whole credit bubble started), when in fact that demand could come from anywhere in the world. It is high time the US stopped being the buyer of last resort.


First, putting the super-rich in a high tax bracket is not the same as raising corporate tax rates.  Second, the U.S. only has high corporate taxes on paper.  By the time these companies jump through all the fancy loops that were created to benefit them, some of them pay no taxes at all.  U.S. businesses pay below average taxes, all things considered.  Yet, we are still seeing our jobs taken overseas.  So what's the answer to that?  Oh, I know...consumer demand...like consumers need to demand that what they buy was actually made here.








I agree with the first statement. All business needs to keep an eye on costs. Tax breaks are a part of that analysis.


True, but I never said they were the same. In addition our US corp tax rate is already way too high. With regard to the super rich, they already pay a huge share of the income tax burden, how much more of it should they pay? 50%? More? I also don't believe in more disincentives to productively use money. Lower rates with more income captured is far more effective, and has been demonstrated by people such as Kennedy and Reagan.


Some companies pay no tax, most pay a lot. I don't know what pay below average taxes means. Many certainly pay less than the 35% rate, but there is also a reason they don't repatriate money into the US.


If consumers wished to buy American, I have no issue with it at all. Of course, seeing the pricing that comes with that, it is highly unlikely. BTW what you described is what happens in relative terms with the rich vs the poor. The rich by many more luxury products, which have a tendency to be made here; the poor need to shop at Walmart or the Dollar Store, and almost nothing they buy comes from America. I don't begrudge them the right to buy cheaper products that are made elsewhere either.

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2 years ago  ::  May 23, 2012 - 7:56PM #34
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

Since the top 1% control 21% of wealth and top 20% control 80%   and top 10% receive 35% of Income,   it figure that the wealthy and high income will pay most of the taxes.   

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  May 23, 2012 - 9:13PM #35
Bodean
Posts: 9,572

May 23, 2012 -- 7:56PM, Fodaoson wrote:


Since the top 1% control 21% of wealth and top 20% control 80%   and top 10% receive 35% of Income,   it figure that the wealthy and high income will pay most of the taxes.   




The top 10% earn 35% of the Income .. but pay 71% of the income taxes.


Where's the JUSTICE in that Fod??   . .not talking about the cock-a-mamy Social Justice B.S. the Left asribes to, I'm talking about real JUSTICE.

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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 9:34AM #36
Cesmom
Posts: 5,096

I don't see the speech this guy makes as being about justice at all, social or otherwise.


It's about what makes sense for the economy.  What makes sense is to help the middle class grow.  That's where the bulk of your consumers lie.  If you look at disposable income, and how much of it gets handed over to Uncle Sam, the middle class are the ones getting screwed, not the rich.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 9:49AM #37
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

May 24, 2012 -- 9:34AM, Cesmom wrote:


I don't see the speech this guy makes as being about justice at all, social or otherwise.


It's about what makes sense for the economy.  What makes sense is to help the middle class grow.  That's where the bulk of your consumers lie.  If you look at disposable income, and how much of it gets handed over to Uncle Sam, the middle class are the ones getting screwed, not the rich.






I like your posts on this thread; but I am afraid they are like casting pearls before swine.

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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