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Switch to Forum Live View The Nakba is Ongoing For Palestinians Today
3 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 4:06PM #1
KindredSai
Posts: 5,778
www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content...

The event marks the expulsion of nearly a million Palestinians, while their villages were destroyed. The destruction of Palestine in 1947-8 ushered in the birth of Israel. 
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3 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 4:50PM #2
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,548

There was no Arab Palestinian Nakba. Is a lie, like all the other Arab lies. The only "catastrophe" is that the Arabs refused peace and refused yet another Arab Palestinian State because they refused to accept Jewish sovereignty on even one square inch of the Jewish homeland. Nothing has changed.

Palestine's Self-Inflicted Wound

I just returned from a visit from several university campuses during which I spoke about the Israeli-Palestine conflict. On these and other campuses anti-Israel students commemorate the Palestinian Nakba. They call this the Day of Catastrophe on which the Palestinians were deprived of their homeland and were made refugees from their birthplace. They compare their catastrophe to the Holocaust. Perhaps out of deference to the suffering of the Palestinian people, Pro-Israel students generally say nothing in response to these Nakba commemorations. The impression is thus created that everyone agrees that this was indeed a catastrophe inflicted by Israel on the Palestinians. The time has come to reply to this canard and to place it in its historical context.

The Nakba was indeed a catastrophe, but it was a self-inflicted wound. The Palestinian Nakba was a direct result of the refusal of the Palestinian and Arab leadership to accept the two state solution offered by the United Nations in 1947-48. The UN divided what remained of Palestine, after Trans-Jordan was carved out of it, into two states of roughly equal size (The Israelis got slightly more actual land, but the Palestinians got considerably more arable land). Israel would control territories in which Jews were a majority, while the Palestinians would control territories in which Arabs were a majority. Israel accepted the partition and declared statehood. Palestinians rejected statehood and attacked Israel with the help of all the surrounding Arab countries. In the process of defending their new state, Israel lost 1% of its population (1 out of every 100 Israelis were killed.) In the ensuing war- a war declared to be genocidal by Israel's enemies- 700,000 Palestinians left their homes, some voluntarily, some at the urging of Palestinian leaders and some forced out by the Israeli military. None of these people would have had to leave Israel had the Palestinians and other Arabs been willing to accept the two state solution. It was indeed a catastrophe for all sides, but the catastrophe was caused by the Palestinians and Arabs.
. . .

This is the reality. This is the historical truth. And the world should understand that this particular catastrophe, as distinguished from others like the Holocaust, could easily have been prevented had the Palestinians wanted their own state more than they wanted to see the destruction of the Jewish state of Israel.

The Germans don't celebrate the catastrophe resulting from their invasion of Poland. Japanese do not celebrate their catastrophe resulting from the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Why do Palestinians celebrate their catastrophe resulting from the Arab attack against Israel?

full article:
www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-dershowitz/p...

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3 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 4:57PM #3
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,548

You want to know the real Nakba - this is it and it has nothing to do with  the people who now call themselves Arab Palestinians



Spare a thought for the other ‘nakba’

The news that student groups on Tel Aviv University campus will be commemorating the Palestinian “nakba” this week with a special ceremony should come as no surprise. Why shouldn’t they join the thousands of youngsters around the world protesting the “catastrophe” of Israel’s birth and the creation of hundreds of thousands of Arab refugees? Palestine is one of the great global “radical chic” causes.

None of these indignant protestors will spare a thought for the other “nakba” — the Jewish one. For, while 700,000 refugees fled in one direction — from Palestine — over 850,000 fled in the other — from Arab countries.

The cause of the flight of the Palestinians in 1948 was war — a war their side launched. In the Arab countries, the cause of the Jewish flight was ethnic cleansing. If Israel had had a deliberate policy to drive out the Arab population, Arabs would not constitute 20 percent of Israel’s population today, nor would they be occupying prominent positions in government and the judiciary.

In Arab countries, by contrast, the Jewish population is down from a million to about 4,000. The Arab Spring is taking a further toll on the Jewish remnants in Tunisia, Yemen and Morocco. A drastic reduction of over 99 percent cannot be explained away as “Jews leaving their homes of their own free will.”
. . .

All those exercised by the destruction of 400 Palestinian villages in Israel should spare a thought for the Jewish life, culture and civilization erased from almost every city and town in the Middle East and North Africa. According to the World Organisation of Jews from Arab Countries, Jews lost not only homes, schools, shops, markets, synagogues and cemeteries, but deeded land and property equivalent to five times the size of Israel itself.

The “understandable backlash” theory exonerates the scapegoating of innocent civilians as “enemy aliens” hundreds of miles from the battlefield. To claim that before Zionism Jews and Muslims coexisted in harmony masks another inconvenient truth. Anti-Semitism in Arab countries did not suddenly spring up as a reaction to Zionism; it predated the establishment of Israel by centuries. Under Muslim rule, Jewish life was precarious and often dispensable, depending on the ruler of the day. The dhimmi rules, humiliating the Jews but sparing their lives in exchange for payment of a poll tax, may have appeared tolerant in the 9th century. Today they appear arbitrary and racist.
. . .

Moreover, the anti-Semitism that Arab-born Jews suffered is key to understanding the Arab world’s deep religious and cultural resistance to the idea of a Jewish state. For 14 centuries Jews lived under Muslim rule as dhimmis – inferior subjects — surrendering their right to self-defense to Muslims. For all its shortcomings, Israel has delivered these Jews from the yoke of Arab-Islamist supremacy.

In all conscience, every liberal ought to see the self-determination of a small, indigenous Middle Eastern people – the Jews – as a progressive cause. Instead, students and their teachers supporting the Palestinian campaign against Israel – deceptively cloaked in the language of human rights — have become unwitting agents for ethno-religious

full article:
blogs.timesofisrael.com/spare-a-thought-...

Spare me the crocodile tears for those who brought their own problems on themselves. Some of us know better. Some of us know that the real Nakba was the destruction of the Jewish presence throughout the Middle East. Some of us know it was the forced eviction of Jews from Arab lands and from lands illegally occupied by Arabs after their attempt to eradicate the Israeli State and each and every one of its Jewish inhabitants.
  

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3 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 5:31PM #4
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,548

A different history of displacement and loss



There is more than one way to look at the commemoration of 1948′s Palestinian defeat and dispersion

On May 15, many in the Arab world and elsewhere mark the Nakba, or the “Catastrophe,” mourning the displacement of the Palestinian Arabs during the 1948 war with Israel. This year, as always, the commemoration will obscure the collapse at the same time of a different Arab society that few remember.

I have spent a great deal of time in the past four years interviewing people born and raised in Aleppo, Syria. Some of these people, most of whom are now in their eighties, are descended from families with roots in Aleppo going back more than two millennia, to Roman times. None of them lives there now.
On November 30, 1947, a day after the United Nations voted to partition Palestine into two states, one for Arabs and one for Jews, Aleppo erupted. Mobs stalked Jewish neighborhoods, looting houses and burning synagogues; one man I interviewed remembered fleeing his home, a barefoot nine-year-old, moments before it was set on fire. Abetted by the government, the rioters burned 50 Jewish shops, five schools, 18 synagogues and an unknown number of homes.
. . .
If we are to fully understand the Israel-Arab conflict, the memory of these people and their exodus must be acknowledged — not as a political weapon, a negotiating tactic or as part of a competition about who suffered more, but simply as history without which it is impossible to understand Israel and the way the Arab world sees it.

Everyone knows the Palestinian refugees are part of the equation of Mideast peace, and anyone who is interested can visit a Palestinian refugee camp and hear true and wrenching stories of expulsion and loss. Among the Jews expelled by Arabs, on the other hand, one can find few who think of themselves as refugees or define themselves by their dispossession. Most are citizens of Israel.

Of the 20 families in my fairly average Jerusalem apartment building, half are in Israel because of the Arab expulsion of Jews, and that is representative of Israel as a whole
. . .
Israel is not as foreign to the Middle East as many in the Arab world like to pretend, and more than one native community was displaced in 1948. If many in the Arab world insist, as they do each Nakba Day, that Israel is a Western invader that must be repelled, it is a claim that belongs to the realm not only of politics but of psychology — one that helps repress their own knowledge that the country they try to portray as alien is also the vengeful ghost of the neighbors they wronged.

full article:
www.timesofisrael.com/a-different-histor...

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3 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 6:02PM #5
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Denying the history of a people gives them license to deny yours.  And the beat goes on.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 6:21PM #6
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,548

Miraj


No one is denying that there were Arab "Palestinians" who were dislocated. The fact is that they were dislocated  because of decisions made by Arab "Palestinians" and other Arabs.  The fact is that all of the Jews who were dislocated in Israel and the territories as well as in the Arab world were also dislocated because of decisions made by Arab "Palestinians" and other Arabs.  The dislocation of populations  and the problems of refugees were due to the decisions and action of Arabs. That is the truth. Ignoring the truth leads one to arrive at false conclusions and false "solutions".


It is my fondest hope that you and the rest of the Arab apologists might one day begin to acknowledge the truth.


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3 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 7:36PM #7
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

I've told you my family's story, and we were among hundreds of thousands removed from our homes by the Haganah and other Zionist forces, relocated, and our property stolen.  Why are you continually in denial about that, yet you want empathy for Jews who were removed from Arab countries?


May 14, 2012 -- 6:21PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Miraj


No one is denying that there were Arab "Palestinians" who were dislocated. The fact is that they were dislocated  because of decisions made by Arab "Palestinians" and other Arabs.  The fact is that all of the Jews who were dislocated in Israel and the territories as well as in the Arab world were also dislocated because of decisions made by Arab "Palestinians" and other Arabs.  The dislocation of populations  and the problems of refugees were due to the decisions and action of Arabs. That is the truth. Ignoring the truth leads one to arrive at false conclusions and false "solutions".


It is my fondest hope that you and the rest of the Arab apologists might one day begin to acknowledge the truth.






Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 9:19PM #8
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,548

May 14, 2012 -- 7:36PM, Miraj wrote:


I've told you my family's story, and we were among hundreds of thousands removed from our homes by the Haganah and other Zionist forces, relocated, and our property stolen.  Why are you continually in denial about that, yet you want empathy for Jews who were removed from Arab countries?


May 14, 2012 -- 6:21PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Miraj


No one is denying that there were Arab "Palestinians" who were dislocated. The fact is that they were dislocated  because of decisions made by Arab "Palestinians" and other Arabs.  The fact is that all of the Jews who were dislocated in Israel and the territories as well as in the Arab world were also dislocated because of decisions made by Arab "Palestinians" and other Arabs.  The dislocation of populations  and the problems of refugees were due to the decisions and action of Arabs. That is the truth. Ignoring the truth leads one to arrive at false conclusions and false "solutions".


It is my fondest hope that you and the rest of the Arab apologists might one day begin to acknowledge the truth.









Unlike you I am not in denial about it. I know how and why it happened. It happened because you (generic) rejected the two state solution in 1948 and you (generic) decided to wage a war of extermination which you (generic) lost. Your (generic) choice, your (generic) responsibility. On the other hand, my family was ejected for the "crime" of being Jewish and living, all because you (generic) could not accept even the idea of a Jewish State in the Jewish homeland or the fact that a rag tag Jewish Army defeated the combined Arab armies who were trained and equipped by the Brits etc....


I also know that you (generic) and in particular had the ability to make other decisions and even have recourse to legal procedures to receive compensation for your alleged losses. I understand that you individually were unsuccessful in pursuing your application for compensation. I know the general reason why such applications are successful and unsuccessful. Since I know nothing about your particular situation I cannot say whether an injustice was done.


While I am sympathetic to you individually, frankly, my heart bleeds borscht for you (generic). When the Arabs begin to accept responsibility for their own actions and the results of those actions, I will be more sympathetic.

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3 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 10:03PM #9
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

May 14, 2012 -- 9:19PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


May 14, 2012 -- 7:36PM, Miraj wrote:


I've told you my family's story, and we were among hundreds of thousands removed from our homes by the Haganah and other Zionist forces, relocated, and our property stolen.  Why are you continually in denial about that, yet you want empathy for Jews who were removed from Arab countries?


May 14, 2012 -- 6:21PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Miraj


No one is denying that there were Arab "Palestinians" who were dislocated. The fact is that they were dislocated  because of decisions made by Arab "Palestinians" and other Arabs.  The fact is that all of the Jews who were dislocated in Israel and the territories as well as in the Arab world were also dislocated because of decisions made by Arab "Palestinians" and other Arabs.  The dislocation of populations  and the problems of refugees were due to the decisions and action of Arabs. That is the truth. Ignoring the truth leads one to arrive at false conclusions and false "solutions".


It is my fondest hope that you and the rest of the Arab apologists might one day begin to acknowledge the truth.









Unlike you I am not in denial about it. I know how and why it happened. It happened because you (generic) rejected the two state solution in 1948 and you (generic) decided to wage a war of extermination which you (generic) lost. Your (generic) choice, your (generic) responsibility. On the other hand, my family was ejected for the "crime" of being Jewish and living, all because you (generic) could not accept even the idea of a Jewish State in the Jewish homeland or the fact that a rag tag Jewish Army defeated the combined Arab armies who were trained and equipped by the Brits etc....


I also know that you (generic) and in particular had the ability to make other decisions and even have recourse to legal procedures to receive compensation for your alleged losses. I understand that you individually were unsuccessful in pursuing your application for compensation. I know the general reason why such applications are successful and unsuccessful. Since I know nothing about your particular situation I cannot say whether an injustice was done.


While I am sympathetic to you individually, frankly, my heart bleeds borscht for you (generic). When the Arabs begin to accept responsibility for their own actions and the results of those actions, I will be more sympathetic.




Those that don't know their own history are bound to repeat it.  Sometimes, I'm convinced that the most staunch supporters of Israel are its own worst enemies.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 1:10PM #10
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,548

Why?



Although the reverse is true. Those who promote the Arab "Palestinian" cause the loudest seem to have the least desire to achieve the stated goal of a new Arab Palestinian State. Goodness knows they have been offered one enough times.  It reminds me of the old saying, "if three people tell you you are drunk go lie down" 

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