Miraj

Posts: 5,023

Seriously. Who cares? Why does that matter? The fact is, Jews living in Palestine prior to 1948 weren't alone. There were Christians, Muslims, Arabs, etc. there, too, and all of them were Palestinians.

Now, me in mode mode:

Not to mention that the debate about that is off-topic, so let's get back on topic, please.

May 19, 2012 -- 8:45PM, KindredSai wrote:

I really don't care about who came up with the term "Palestine" or "Palestinian" first.

What matters is the fact that a group who refer themselves to as Palestinians and who are internationally recognised as such (including Israel) exist.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts. By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result. The result is not the responsibility of this member.

shmuelgoldstein

Posts: 1,988

Happy Nakba Day!!

It is the anniversary - according to the Gregorian calendar - of the declaration of the State of Israel, and of the declaration of war against the nascent Jewish state by five Arab states. Israel today uses the date according to the Jewish calendar (5 Iyar, 5708), and so celebrated its independence in April this year.

But the Arabs use the Gregorian calendar. I don't know why they don't use the Islamic calendar.

"Nakba" is Arabic for "disaster". The Arabs look at the founding of the State of Israel a "disaster", and several here in Israel want to "commemorate" the day as "Nakba Day". (maybe it has something to do with the fact that five Arab armies couldn't whip the Jews).

Anyway, I agree.

I wish all of my Ishamaelite cousins a very Happy Nakba Day.

Moderated by Miraj on May 20, 2012 - 03:44PM

Dostojevsky

Posts: 4,746

Shmuel.., no need to wait another 12 months. As the title of the thread says, Nakba is ongoing.

I just watched a video of Israeli soldiers in Hebron demanding young men to leave their shops and when they resisted they were draged away. Then proceeded to weld the doors to the shops so the owners could not enter.

Put their their shoes on for a minute - tell us how it feels.

I am stunned. I have heard all sorts of things from others but for ther first time I am with broadbandand I can see it for myself.

Degrading old people by ejecting them from their homes - old man, old man, one minute! - young children look in bewilderment. These are the future citizens.

What a way to make friends and influence people*

LeahOne

Posts: 14,490

Dos, how do you know that the 'translation' of dialog and explanation of context was accurate?

In fact, how do you know that the entire thing wasn't simply 'acted'?

Just because someone makes a video and says "This is Israeli soldiers harming Palestinians in sheer malice" - does that make it true?

Moderated by Merope on May 20, 2012 - 01:45PM

Dostojevsky

Posts: 4,746

Leah, there is such a thing as uniforms...

and there was one humanitarian oganisation there present, it's on the video.

If they are not Israelis do you have a suggestion as to who they might be?

Perhaps you have some videos for Palestian violence on an equal level - not boys throwing stones at the tanks.

LeahOne

Posts: 14,490

Uniforms can be copied or counterfeited.

Most of all, film can be edited to NOT show certain things, and voice-overs can be distortions.

Rememebr the two 'boys' from Awarta who didn't use rocks but knives - on a three month old baby and her family. And then BOASTED about the murders during their trial.

I remember we were supposed to believe their 'confessions' had been 'coerced' just because some lying fraud of a "peace activist" pretended it was so...... That of course explains their mothers' PRIDE in those murders.

SherriMunnerlyn

Posts: 7,479

May 20, 2012 -- 11:42PM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Leah, there is such a thing as uniforms...

and there was one humanitarian oganisation there present, it's on the video.

If they are not Israelis do you have a suggestion as to who they might be?

Perhaps you have some videos for Palestian violence on an equal level - not boys throwing stones at the tanks.

Dos,

Here is you another video, from 972 Magazine, settlers shoot Palestinian in head as Israeli soldiers stand beside them. And Btselem, Israel's very own well respected human rights group, founded by members of the Knesset, addresses what happened.

WATCH: Settlers shoot Palestinian in head while soldiers stand by

A 24 year-old Palestinian was hit in the head from a live round of bullets Saturday in the village of Asira al-Qibliya. B’Tselem footage of the event shows the settlers shooting at the young man, and Israeli soldiers standing by them – doing nothing to prevent it.

According to B’Tselem, the incident started at around 16:30 Saturday, when a group of settlers descended from the extremist settlement Itzhar towards the Palestinian village (as seen in the first video below). According to eye witnesses the settlers – some of them masked and some armed – started fires in the fields near the village and threw stones at Palestinians who moved towards them, who also started throwing stones at the settlers.

Sherri

SherriMunnerlyn

Posts: 7,479

May 20, 2012 -- 11:42PM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Leah, there is such a thing as uniforms...

and there was one humanitarian oganisation there present, it's on the video.

If they are not Israelis do you have a suggestion as to who they might be?

Perhaps you have some videos for Palestian violence on an equal level - not boys throwing stones at the tanks.

Dos,

About those Palestinian boys throwing stones, the ones who Israel claims make protests violent, what I am reading is they are Israelis. Do you believe this? I had read stories before from Palestinians stating it was Israelis behind the throwing of the stones, and now we see evidence it is completely true.

Commander admits: Undercover Israeli officers threw stones at soldiers in Bil’in

At the time, almost nobody believed what the activists had said. The village of Bil’in was organizing one of its first mass demonstrations against the fence built on its lands, in the very early days of the local popular struggle. Organizers made a special point of making sure that no stones would be thrown at the soldiers at any point of this specific demonstration, in April 2005, even if the soldiers were to attack first – which was and to this day still is the trigger to attacks against them.

However, as the demonstration progressed towards the construction site of the fence, several young men of Arab appearance, unknown to organizers and thought to have come from neighboring villages, started throwing stones, giving the soldiers the ~~queue~~ cue they needed to disperse the demonstration with tear gas and make arrests. According to several witnesses, leaders in the popular struggle approached the young men and asked them to stop throwing stones – at which point the strangers pulled out concealed guns and handcuffs and arrested the people who asked them to stop. It would later be made known that these were combatants in the IPS elite anti-riot unit Metzada (“Masada”), lent to the army to infiltrate demonstrations and make them violent. And yet – most Israelis would not believe this story.

Sherri

Dostojevsky

Posts: 4,746

May 21, 2012 -- 1:36AM, SherriMunnerlyn wrote:

And yet – most Israelis would not believe this story.

Of course not, it is hard for anyone or any nation to face its own demons.

It's much easier to see the speck in someone's eye than the boulder in our own.

But most people and most nations had/have to go through it.

Just look at Germany, Christianity. Bombardment never stops.

Israelis' turn will come, I hope.

Moderated by Merope on May 22, 2012 - 02:17AM

SherriMunnerlyn

Posts: 7,479

May 21, 2012 -- 7:57PM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Of course not, it is hard for anyone or any nation to face its own demons.

It's much easier to see the speck in someone's eye than the boulder in our own.

But most people and most nations had/have to go through it.

Just look at Germany, Christianity. Bombardment never stops.

Israelis' turn will come, I hope.

Dos,

All in God's Timing, it is all just a matter of time.

In the meantime, we each of us just respond to whatever happens next.

Sherri

Moderated by Merope on May 22, 2012 - 02:19AM

Happy Nakba Day!!

WATCH: Settlers shoot Palestinian in head while soldiers stand by

Commander admits: Undercover Israeli officers threw stones at soldiers in Bil’in

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