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Switch to Forum Live View One Thing Israel Gets Right: Gay Rights
2 years ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 4:09PM #11
habesor
Posts: 5,666

BDBoy,


What is Jewish as defined by Israelis is not up to you. Just as what is Palestinian is up to the Palestinians and not you or what is American, Australian, Indian or Pakistani is up to those folks. If the the Jews of the Jewish state decide that it will be democratic and that gays will have the right to the sexual preference of their choice no matter what is written in Deuteronomy, then that is up to us. If you think that the Jewish state can't by definition be democratic because you have a misconception about what it means to be a Jew, then you have a problem. If the State of Israel allows for gay sexual preferences while in the Arab states and in the PA Arab gays live in such fear of their lives that many choose to flee to the Jewish State and for some strange reason a gay rights activist condemns Israel for this, well... she has a problem. 


Habesor

Habesor
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2 years ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 4:32PM #12
Shusha
Posts: 4,578

...it is a bit hypocritical to claim it as "Jewish", "Humane" and "Gay friendly" at the same time....



BD,


Why?  Do you think these things are mutually exclusive?

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2 years ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 6:14PM #13
SherriMunnerlyn
Posts: 7,504

May 10, 2012 -- 4:32PM, Shusha wrote:


...it is a bit hypocritical to claim it as "Jewish", "Humane" and "Gay friendly" at the same time....



BD,


Why?  Do you think these things are mutually exclusive?




Shusha,


In light of the Jewish State, Israel, maintaining a 40+ year inhumane Occupation inside Palestine, it is hypocritical to use the terms Jewish and Humane together. That is simply an illustration of the harm Zionism has done to Judaism and Jews all over the world.


Gay friendly, I do not think it is necessarily mutually exclusive to the  other terms.


Sherri 


 

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2 years ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 11:32PM #14
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

May 10, 2012 -- 6:14PM, SherriMunnerlyn wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 4:32PM, Shusha wrote:


...it is a bit hypocritical to claim it as "Jewish", "Humane" and "Gay friendly" at the same time....



BD,


Why?  Do you think these things are mutually exclusive?




Shusha,


In light of the Jewish State, Israel, maintaining a 40+ year inhumane Occupation inside Palestine, it is hypocritical to use the terms Jewish and Humane together. That is simply an illustration of the harm Zionism has done to Judaism and Jews all over the world.


Gay friendly, I do not think it is necessarily mutually exclusive to the  other terms.


Sherri 




That's sounds rather harsh, Sherri; perhaps you didn't mean it the way it sounds.  Certainly one can be Jewish and humane without hypocrisy.  In my experience, I have no doubt that most Jews are humane.  There is a history in Judaism for speaking out for justice that has benefited millions around the world.  


Of course, there are inhumane Jews, as there are bad people among any group.  In my opinion from living and working in the ME, most Israelis and Arabs view the troubles there as primarily political rather than religious.  My Jewish friends, co-workers and neighbors do.  They're as critical of US involvment in the region and of the Israeli government as am I.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  May 11, 2012 - 4:40PM #15
KindredSai
Posts: 5,636

KS, I am disappointed. Cut aid because of their moral standards which are rooted in their tradition, culture, religion? They have a right to their view same as you have right to yours.



Moral standards?


You are actually joking? Culture, religion and tradition? If culture and religion justifies the oppression of a minority, then it's not cultured and to hell with tradition.


Nations who aren't tolerant of homosexuals or Palestinians or homosexual Palestinians, need to modernise.


We cannot be like Zionists and be subservient to dated interpretations of scripture.

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2 years ago  ::  May 12, 2012 - 3:03PM #16
BDboy
Posts: 5,586

May 10, 2012 -- 4:32PM, Shusha wrote:


...it is a bit hypocritical to claim it as "Jewish", "Humane" and "Gay friendly" at the same time....



BD,


Why?  Do you think these things are mutually exclusive?




 


>>>>>>>> Looking at the status of non-Jews around Israel and what Bible said about Gays, yes.


If you want to be an "Authentic Jew", you need to practice your laws (Which is NOT gay friendly).


I am NOT trying to dictate how Israel will present itself but there are obvious self-contradiction to say the least.

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2 years ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 4:38AM #17
shmuelgoldstein
Posts: 2,354

May 10, 2012 -- 5:16AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

I know this has been talked about over and over...but as there aren't cameras in my bedroom and no police outside my door, whose business is it with whom or with what do I have sex with?



No one's. 


The only difference comes when you go out in public and want everyone to recognize your boyfriend as your "husband". Or register him as such in gov't records.


Keep it in the bedroom - where it belongs - and everyone is fine.

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2 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 7:02AM #18
KindredSai
Posts: 5,636

May 13, 2012 -- 4:38AM, shmuelgoldstein wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 5:16AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

I know this has been talked about over and over...but as there aren't cameras in my bedroom and no police outside my door, whose business is it with whom or with what do I have sex with?



No one's. 


The only difference comes when you go out in public and want everyone to recognize your boyfriend as your "husband". Or register him as such in gov't records.


Keep it in the bedroom - where it belongs - and everyone is fine.




What's wrong with wanting people to recognise your partner?


It's this type of right-wing ignorance that prevents the World from turning to the better.


What goes in the bedroom should stay in the bedroom I agree but there's nothing wrong with two men wanting to marry.


Dos, Bdboy,


The problem with your disposition is this as with Islam, Christianity and so forth, there are various dimensions of Judaism all claiming to be the normative version of such. To cite that the State should as a Jewish State should follow the traditional basis based on the bible, Torah, Tanakh, Talmud is not only false but ignorant.


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