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2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 4:03PM #11
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

we know that getting oil and gas requires deeper  wells, drilling in the arctic, the gulf,  in the  deep North Atlantic ocean, etc,  Petroleum is  and gas are  getting more difficult to produce.  Fracing is widespread. In other words the oil supply is getting more difficult to get to; not  opinion, fact.


Environmental concerns are real. If you drive across Texas and Oklahoma . You can find depleted oil wells setting in the middle of one to three acres of  dead soil. The drilling process of days gone by  killed the  agriculture productivity  around the well for decades . Again observable fact not opinion.   


 Below are two example of ice cap s getting smaller. When they melt the ocean rises. With a rice of inches Many Oceanside cities will be flooded.   


 I am not arguing for or against global warming, manmade or cyclical. Iam just  commenting on a developing environmental problem that must be dealt with


Arctic Ice Cap Coverage Isn't Only Shrinking, It's Getting Thinner, Too


The thorough satellite analysis yet paints a grim picture of Arctic ice's overall melt rate by looking beyond reduced surface area


In the 30 plus years since scientists started using satellites to track the area of the Arctic ice cap, the size of the ice pack has gotten smaller and smaller. However, new data from NASA's IceSAT satellite shows that the ice has been melting faster than anyone predicted.


It seems that measuring the area of the ice only tells part of the story. Unlike the other satellites that merely photograph the ice, IceSAT uses a laser to measure the height of the ice. IceSAT's laser can detect changes in ice level as small as a half an inch. And since the height of the ice relates to the thickness of the ice, NASA researchers were able to measure the the density of the ice from 2004-2008.


What they found is not good. It seems that the thick, permanent ice that used to constitute the majority of Arctic ice has been replaced by thinner, seasonal ice that melts away during the summer months. So not only is the ice covering less area than ever before, but the ice that does form is thinner than ever before. In total, the scientists calculated that the ice pack shrank by 57 percent between 2004 and 2008, thinning by 2.2 feet.


www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-...


Polar Ice Sheets Melting Faster Than Predicted By Lauren Morello and ClimateWire  | March 9, 2011 | 


The thick glaciers covering Greenland and Antarctica are melting faster than scientists expectedIce loss from the massive ice sheets covering Greenland and Antarctica is accelerating, according to a new study.


If the trend continues, ice sheets could become the dominant contributor to sea level rise sooner than scientists had predicted, concludes the research, which will be published this month in the journalGeophysical Research Letters


 


| "The traditional view of the loss of land ice on Earth has been that mountain glaciers and ice caps are the dominant contributors, and ice sheets are following behind," said study co-author Eric Rignot, a glaciologist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the University of California, Irvine. "In this study, we are showing that ice sheets, mountain glaciers and ice caps are neck-and-neck."


But that could soon change, Rignot said, because the rate at which ice sheets are losing mass is increasing three times faster than the rate of ice loss from mountain glaciers and ice caps.www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?i...


The video in the OP is just pure propaganda using distortion  of the truth 

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 4:31PM #12
TENAC
Posts: 26,563

Back to the OP, this country is worse off x 4 since obama took office.  The measures advocated and passed into law by the obama administration and the democrats in the first 2 years have put us squarely where we are today.   It is safe to assume we would be immeasurably worse off had the repubs not swept back into office in 2010.  For sure, it not for tparty influence in the house, spending would be much much worse.



If you listened to obama's campaign kick off speeches this weekend, you would think obama wasnt around for his first term.


Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 7:13PM #13
Bodean
Posts: 9,581

May 6, 2012 -- 4:03PM, Fodaoson wrote:


we know that getting oil and gas requires deeper  wells, drilling in the arctic, the gulf,  in the  deep North Atlantic ocean, etc,  Petroleum is  and gas are  getting more difficult to produce.  Fracing is widespread. In other words the oil supply is getting more difficult to get to; not  opinion, fact.


Environmental concerns are real. If you drive across Texas and Oklahoma . You can find depleted oil wells setting in the middle of one to three acres of  dead soil. The drilling process of days gone by  killed the  agriculture productivity  around the well for decades . Again observable fact not opinion.   


 Below are two example of ice cap s getting smaller. When they melt the ocean rises. With a rice of inches Many Oceanside cities will be flooded.   


 I am not arguing for or against global warming, manmade or cyclical. Iam just  commenting on a developing environmental problem that must be dealt with


Arctic Ice Cap Coverage Isn't Only Shrinking, It's Getting Thinner, Too


The thorough satellite analysis yet paints a grim picture of Arctic ice's overall melt rate by looking beyond reduced surface area


In the 30 plus years since scientists started using satellites to track the area of the Arctic ice cap, the size of the ice pack has gotten smaller and smaller. However, new data from NASA's IceSAT satellite shows that the ice has been melting faster than anyone predicted.


It seems that measuring the area of the ice only tells part of the story. Unlike the other satellites that merely photograph the ice, IceSAT uses a laser to measure the height of the ice. IceSAT's laser can detect changes in ice level as small as a half an inch. And since the height of the ice relates to the thickness of the ice, NASA researchers were able to measure the the density of the ice from 2004-2008.


What they found is not good. It seems that the thick, permanent ice that used to constitute the majority of Arctic ice has been replaced by thinner, seasonal ice that melts away during the summer months. So not only is the ice covering less area than ever before, but the ice that does form is thinner than ever before. In total, the scientists calculated that the ice pack shrank by 57 percent between 2004 and 2008, thinning by 2.2 feet.


www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-...


Polar Ice Sheets Melting Faster Than Predicted By Lauren Morello and ClimateWire  | March 9, 2011 | 


The thick glaciers covering Greenland and Antarctica are melting faster than scientists expectedIce loss from the massive ice sheets covering Greenland and Antarctica is accelerating, according to a new study.


If the trend continues, ice sheets could become the dominant contributor to sea level rise sooner than scientists had predicted, concludes the research, which will be published this month in the journalGeophysical Research Letters


 


| "The traditional view of the loss of land ice on Earth has been that mountain glaciers and ice caps are the dominant contributors, and ice sheets are following behind," said study co-author Eric Rignot, a glaciologist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the University of California, Irvine. "In this study, we are showing that ice sheets, mountain glaciers and ice caps are neck-and-neck."


But that could soon change, Rignot said, because the rate at which ice sheets are losing mass is increasing three times faster than the rate of ice loss from mountain glaciers and ice caps.www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?i...


The video in the OP is just pure propaganda using distortion  of the truth 





Fodoson ....


To call the thinning ice cap "a problem" is to assume that we can do anything about it.  To assume that we can do anything about it is to assume that man's activity is what is influencing it.


There's no sound scientific evidence that the latter assumption is true.

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2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 7:25PM #14
Bodean
Posts: 9,581

May 6, 2012 -- 3:54PM, teilhard wrote:


No ... The inevitable Collapse of EVERY Empire has N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with "Liberal" vs. "Conservative" or Right v. Left or any such Thing ... It's just the Way Things work in History ...




Well TH .. we'll just have to disagree about that.


Throughout history, people's do just fine until they are conquered by, or evolve to a regime that ascribes to a "central planning" strategy.  Life becomes more about the collective, and less about individuals striving to achieve.


In the rat race of humanity, there will always be winners and losers.  After a time, after the same people keep winning, people have a perspective change .. one in which the plight of the losers takes precedent over the winners.


Call it whatever you like ... right left, conserative liberal ... it boils down to collective vs individual.  What's worse, is that in the "collective" the percentage of peoples who begin to rely on the collective for their welfare grows and grows until the collective can no longer support itself ... and then it fails.


In todays world .. it is the LEFT who are demonizing individual success and pushing for a nanny state collective.  Like I said .. the "stars and stripes forever" died in the thirties.  Ever since then, we've slowly moved more and more to the collective, central planning society, where people look to the Government to solve all their problems.  When that happens .. when people start shirking their personal responsibility for themselves and look to the Government to solve everything .... the system crumbles.

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2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 9:53PM #15
teilhard
Posts: 51,390

Yes ... Obviously, "America" isn't going to be "destroyed" by ANYBODY'S political or economic or ideological Mistakes or Mischief ...


"North America," The Continent, e.g., will still be here for (probably) a VERY long Time ... And most likely even AFTER the Dissolution of "The United States of America," there will still be Persons who "live and move and have their being" in this "Neck of the Woods," whether it's NAMED "America" or whatever ...


What will inevitably disappear is IMPERIAL "America" ... THAT is the Point ...


May 6, 2012 -- 7:25PM, Bodean wrote:


May 6, 2012 -- 3:54PM, teilhard wrote:


No ... The inevitable Collapse of EVERY Empire has N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with "Liberal" vs. "Conservative" or Right v. Left or any such Thing ... It's just the Way Things work in History ...




Well TH .. we'll just have to disagree about that.


Throughout history, people's do just fine until they are conquered by, or evolve to a regime that ascribes to a "central planning" strategy.  Life becomes more about the collective, and less about individuals striving to achieve.


In the rat race of humanity, there will always be winners and losers.  After a time, after the same people keep winning, people have a perspective change .. one in which the plight of the losers takes precedent over the winners.


Call it whatever you like ... right left, conserative liberal ... it boils down to collective vs individual.  What's worse, is that in the "collective" the percentage of peoples who begin to rely on the collective for their welfare grows and grows until the collective can no longer support itself ... and then it fails.


In todays world .. it is the LEFT who are demonizing individual success and pushing for a nanny state collective.  Like I said .. the "stars and stripes forever" died in the thirties.  Ever since then, we've slowly moved more and more to the collective, central planning society, where people look to the Government to solve all their problems.  When that happens .. when people start shirking their personal responsibility for themselves and look to the Government to solve everything .... the system crumbles.





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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 9:41AM #16
ted08721
Posts: 3,757

Fascism is destroying our country, and I think some of the posters at this forum are fascist and either don't even realise it or pretend they are not.


www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/05/you-mig...

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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 9:42AM #17
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

The easiest way to destroy America is to let the liberals continue to force their policies on the rest of us.

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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 9:45AM #18
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

May 6, 2012 -- 7:13PM, Bodean wrote:


May 6, 2012 -- 4:03PM, Fodaoson wrote:


we know that getting oil and gas requires deeper  wells, drilling in the arctic, the gulf,  in the  deep North Atlantic ocean, etc,  Petroleum is  and gas are  getting more difficult to produce.  Fracing is widespread. In other words the oil supply is getting more difficult to get to; not  opinion, fact.


Environmental concerns are real. If you drive across Texas and Oklahoma . You can find depleted oil wells setting in the middle of one to three acres of  dead soil. The drilling process of days gone by  killed the  agriculture productivity  around the well for decades . Again observable fact not opinion.   


 Below are two example of ice cap s getting smaller. When they melt the ocean rises. With a rice of inches Many Oceanside cities will be flooded.   


 I am not arguing for or against global warming, manmade or cyclical. Iam just  commenting on a developing environmental problem that must be dealt with


Arctic Ice Cap Coverage Isn't Only Shrinking, It's Getting Thinner, Too


The thorough satellite analysis yet paints a grim picture of Arctic ice's overall melt rate by looking beyond reduced surface area


In the 30 plus years since scientists started using satellites to track the area of the Arctic ice cap, the size of the ice pack has gotten smaller and smaller. However, new data from NASA's IceSAT satellite shows that the ice has been melting faster than anyone predicted.


It seems that measuring the area of the ice only tells part of the story. Unlike the other satellites that merely photograph the ice, IceSAT uses a laser to measure the height of the ice. IceSAT's laser can detect changes in ice level as small as a half an inch. And since the height of the ice relates to the thickness of the ice, NASA researchers were able to measure the the density of the ice from 2004-2008.


What they found is not good. It seems that the thick, permanent ice that used to constitute the majority of Arctic ice has been replaced by thinner, seasonal ice that melts away during the summer months. So not only is the ice covering less area than ever before, but the ice that does form is thinner than ever before. In total, the scientists calculated that the ice pack shrank by 57 percent between 2004 and 2008, thinning by 2.2 feet.


www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-...


Polar Ice Sheets Melting Faster Than Predicted By Lauren Morello and ClimateWire  | March 9, 2011 | 


The thick glaciers covering Greenland and Antarctica are melting faster than scientists expectedIce loss from the massive ice sheets covering Greenland and Antarctica is accelerating, according to a new study.


If the trend continues, ice sheets could become the dominant contributor to sea level rise sooner than scientists had predicted, concludes the research, which will be published this month in the journalGeophysical Research Letters


 


| "The traditional view of the loss of land ice on Earth has been that mountain glaciers and ice caps are the dominant contributors, and ice sheets are following behind," said study co-author Eric Rignot, a glaciologist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the University of California, Irvine. "In this study, we are showing that ice sheets, mountain glaciers and ice caps are neck-and-neck."


But that could soon change, Rignot said, because the rate at which ice sheets are losing mass is increasing three times faster than the rate of ice loss from mountain glaciers and ice caps.www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?i...


The video in the OP is just pure propaganda using distortion  of the truth 





Fodoson ....


To call the thinning ice cap "a problem" is to assume that we can do anything about it.  To assume that we can do anything about it is to assume that man's activity is what is influencing it.


There's no sound scientific evidence that the latter assumption is true.




You are absolutely right! As a retired scientist I am appaled at all the nonsense the know-nothings are leading the average citizen to believe.


What are these imbeciles going to say on December 23?

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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 9:53AM #19
ted08721
Posts: 3,757

That video in the OP is so wrong about the middle class, the unions gave rise to the middle class , and now with the destruction of unions we see the decline of the middle class.

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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 10:17AM #20
ted08721
Posts: 3,757

May 7, 2012 -- 9:41AM, ted08721 wrote:


Fascism is destroying our country, and I think some of the posters at this forum are fascist and either don't even realise it or pretend they are not.


www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/05/you-mig...





I think these two from the above list fit most fascist at this forum:

10. You strongly align yourself with corporations and you support corporate money and influence in government. You despise government regulations that keep corporations honest because you believe everything should be controlled by the free market and that corporations should be allowed to do whatever they please


13. You absolutely despise unions. To you and those like you, labor unions represent the empowerment of workers. Since you believe corporations can do whatever they want, you see organized labor as a threat because they fight for higher wages, health care, safety regulations, less hours, vacations, sick days, and holidays off. This obviously threatens the amount of money corporations can give to you and your cause so you brand unions as proponents of socialism and make laws that severely weaken them so that corporations can have a cheap, mindless labor force.

And also to a lesser extent here but I see it more at other internet forums especially forums that deal with religion would be

11. You are obsessed with Christianity. You seek to declare a Christian State and to impose religious laws on all the people across the country and the world. You believe other religions are inferior and that those who practice them should either be converted or destroyed.

Some people that claim to be christian actually believe God and the bible favors war and that the United States is destined to rule the world through military power, I see this happening every time I hear a poltician or any citizen start speaking about American Exceptionalism, it is very scary, they start cherry picking and twisting bible verses to fit this great plan.
And we have seen where the military trains military personal that it is christian thing to do to have our finger on nuke buttons.
They put bible quotes on rifle scopes etc., send troops to right wing christian camps for R&R etc.

This is all pretty scary stuff, Chris Hedges wrote a book about the religious right "American Fascists"
Here is an interview he did with Amy Goodman of Democracy Now.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHABaK7LXYU&feat...

This

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