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Switch to Forum Live View It’s apartheid in the West Bank . . .
2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 5:29PM #1
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

It’s apartheid in the West Bank, but Obama and liberal Jews are too ‘intimidated’ to say anything — Perlstein in Rolling Stone


by Matthew Taylor on April 30, 2012



Like other Mondo contributors, I find Beinart's new book to be brave, important, and blinkered all at once. The biggest problem is Beinart's false, idealized image of pre-1967 Israel as a "flawed, but genuine democracy." This doesn't work because even within the green line Israel has always been a non-democratic apartheid state.


Reference the international law definition of the crime of apartheid:



inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."



Israel's willful, orchestrated ethnic cleansing of Palestine –– and denial of the right of refugees to return who wish to live peaceably with their neighbors –– negates any legitimate claim Israel had or has to being a "flawed, but genuine democracy." By any civil rights standard, these refugees and their descendants should have been on Israel's voter rolls for the past 64 years.
. . .


Israel has from day one been a Pretend Democracy. It's a brilliant slight of hand to deny the vote to people who aren't present on election day because they've been expelled. But the facade's cracks become more visible every day.


The Crisis of Zionism is not a result of the conquest, slow-drip ethnic cleansing, and colonization of the West Bank, which is simply a continuation of what Ben-Gurion and colleagues started in 1948. The Crisis of Zionism is that there is no way to reconcile liberal values with ethnic cleansing, and there is no way to maintain the charade indefinitely in the internet age.


Continued at the link. 


 


Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 12:21AM #2
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

A big reason, though not the only one, that the accusation of apatheid made toward Isael is false is obvious from the definition of apatheid used in the opening post. In particular, this phrase..."...domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups..."
in no way applies to what exists andd has existed inside Israel.


Judaism, like both Christianity and Islam is not racist no based on race. Israelis are NOT a race any more than Jews, or Muslims are a race. In fact, many Israelis and Palestinians are descended rather directly from similar 'racial' tribes/peoples/groups/empires/assorted imperial gaggles and so forth.


Discrimination on the basis of religion, or ethnicity may be many things, but it is not apartheid! The Muslim countries that do not grant equal rights to Chrstians and Jews are NOT practicing apartheid either...just by the way!


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 7:49AM #3
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,451

Quote:


'..israel as a flawed, but genuine democracy'.


Somebody help me here please: I am a genuine virgin but i am flawed?


 


"Reference the international law definition of the crime of apartheid:



inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."


Ken, turning and twisting words do not change the reality of the people.



 

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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 10:12AM #4
LeahOne
Posts: 16,386
Dos, on what basis do you suppose 'virtginity' is a good comparative to 'democracy'?

Perhaps if you understood the flaw in your analogy, you'd see that the analogy constitutes a distortion in and of itself.
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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 5:02PM #5
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,040

Israel is apartheid only if you remove all meaning from the term.


Redefining words to suit political purposes in order to prevent intelligent analysis of facts and in order to prevent intelligent discussion seems to be a hallmark of the Arab apologists and anti-Israel folks both here and in the world in general.

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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 5:10PM #6
BDboy
Posts: 5,659

May 5, 2012 -- 5:02PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Israel is apartheid only if you remove all meaning from the term.


Redefining words to suit political purposes in order to prevent intelligent analysis of facts and in order to prevent intelligent discussion seems to be a hallmark of the Arab apologists and anti-Israel folks both here and in the world in general.




 


>>>>>>> You are right. Israel is not bad if you are talking about race. It is better than most of it's neighbors.


 


HOWEVER if you look into descrimination based on religion, Israel is very bad. Simple as that. Just look at any map of west bank that is 20-25 years old and look up a recent ones.

Moderated by Merope on May 07, 2012 - 03:27PM
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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 5:59PM #7
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

May 5, 2012 -- 5:10PM, BDboy wrote:


May 5, 2012 -- 5:02PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Israel is apartheid only if you remove all meaning from the term.


Redefining words to suit political purposes in order to prevent intelligent analysis of facts and in order to prevent intelligent discussion seems to be a hallmark of the Arab apologists and anti-Israel folks both here and in the world in general.




 


>>>>>>> You are right. Israel is not bad if you are talking about race. It is better than most of it's neighbors.



Oh, yeah?

  • Published 04:51 02.04.12
  • Latest update 04:51 02.04.12

It's time to intervene against racism in Israeli soccer


The State of Israel cannot allow a situation in which a sport avidly followed by hundreds of thousands of people, among them many youngsters, turns into an untreatable abscess of racism and violence.


Haaretz Editorial



In March alone, there were four recorded violent incidents linked to Israeli soccer.


Thousands of Hapoel Tel Aviv fans rioted after the team lost the Tel Aviv derby, throwing objects onto the field and blocking the players of both teams from leaving it. A few days later, two Maccabi Petah Tikva fans burst onto the field and tried to assault a referee; then we had the 300 Beitar Jerusalem fans who ran amok at the Malha Mall, yelling "Death to the Arabs" and beating up Arab cleaning workers; and on Saturday two officials of the Maccabi Petah Tikva club attacked Hapoel Haifa player Ali Khatib, who was head-butted by one and kicked in the face by the other.


Only in Israeli soccer can a club block Arabs from joining its ranks, and harsh violence is treated solely as a disciplinary infraction, to be handled by the Israel Football Association's internal court. The anarchy and lack of police enforcement have turned Israeli soccer into a source of violence, racism and hatred, and has even started to attract dubious characters, who at times manage the teams.


Continued at the link.

  • Published 01:35 10.10.11
  • Latest update 01:35 10.10.11


In Jaffa, Israeli racism towards Arabs is routine


The problem in Jaffa is not that some kids scrawled 'Death to the Arabs' on a grave, but the racist treatment Arabs receive on a daily basis; Israel's Arab minority is treated as an enemy.


By Roy Arad

Ahmed Abu-Kutub, who is the event operations director at the Tel Aviv Hilton hotel and has worked there for 30 years, stands outside. He came to the community center for his son, who is a reporter for an Arabic language website called Yaffa48.com. "How will this help?" the Hilton employee asks, referring to Danino's visit. He was offended by the graffiti discovered on Muslim and Christian graves in Jaffa over the weekend, calling it a serious matter.


"We grew up with Jews. To me, you're a human being. That's how we were taught at home. A person has died. What do you write on his grave? All kinds of nonsense?" Abu-Kutub remarked.


Social Affairs: Silent no more!


By RUTH EGLASH

LAST UPDATED: 01/14/2012 15:34


Unlike their parents, the younger generation of Ethiopian-Israelis will not stay quiet about racism.


The words were spoken clearly. Captured on camera and broadcast on national television in the first week of 2012: “The only good Ethiopian is a dead Ethiopian.”

Referring to them also as “jukim,” or cockroaches, a tenant from an apartment block in the southern town of Kiryat Malachi stated proudly that he would never sell his home to an Ethiopian family because “it brings down the value of the neighborhood.”

The man revealed that 120 other families spanning four residential buildings had collectively signed an agreement with the neighborhood council not to sell or rent their apartments to families of Ethiopian descent.

The news report was only the tip of the iceberg. In the week that has followed the broadcast, members of the Ethiopian community have galvanized their people, especially the second generation of immigrants, to speak out against a phenomenon that fails to abate and that spreads far beyond Kiryat Malachi. . . . This is not something new. We have seen it in so many areas: in the education system, in the job market and in housing,” he says. “We keep hearing a lot of promises [from the government] that things will change but no one does anything.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 4:00AM #8
NahumS
Posts: 1,761

This is a series of issues that are not necessarily related in any way. You are drawing the lines between the dots yourselves.


There are certain racist elements in Israeli society. There is also an element of national struggle between two peoples. Jewish cemeteries and synagogues are defaced regularly by Arabs as well.


None of it is acceptable. Football hooliganism, vandalism and all the rest should never be tolerated - against anyone.


Re: Ethiopian immigrants - there is always some resentment and discrimination against newer waves of immigration. I've been in Israel for 26 years -and there are some people who still mock my American accent. The Ethiopians come from a much less advanced society and many have found it difficult to "catch up". Some Israelis are unkind and unwelcoming, and prefer stereotypes to giving others a chance.


But most of us are very happy that this long-separated community has rejoined our people. They have been given tremendous financial help in setting up homes, and there are many educational programs that help their children integrate. I have taught in these programs and am currently involved with one - encouraging literacy and use of the library. A number of mistakes have been made in absorbing the Ethiopian community - but no other country has, or would, take on this kind of challenge.


Regarding the "West Bank" (it's called that because the Jordanians from the Jordan's East Bank illegally invaded the area and annexed it between 1948-1967 when they attacked Israel and lost control over this area)- true, Jews have moved here. The Arab population has not decreased as a result, and their standard of living has only improved because of the Jewish presence. Most of the "settlements" (I prefer Jewish communities) were bult on barren state land, or on land that was Jews owned prior to their expulsion in 1948.


The only racism here is to assume that Jews have no right to live in the heartland of Biblical Israel, in the places that are so much a part of our history and heritage - and that was designated for "dense Jewish settlement" by international agreement by the League of Nations. There is plenty of room for all of us to live together in peace and mutual respect. There is nothing racist about a Jewish presence in our homeland. Denying us this right is the epitome of racism and ethnic cleansing.

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2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 6:53AM #9
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

While I agree wholeheartedly with the much of your post, NahumS, I can easily draw dots about racism within Israel because I'm not a Jew, but, an Arab Muslim who experiences discrimination and prejudice personally when I'm there.  The only racism is not against Jews.  One reason why there is prejudice in Israel is because people think of it as a Jewish state.  Non-Jews muddy the water in that regard and are viewed with suspicion that they dilute the majority in any significant way.


May 6, 2012 -- 4:00AM, NahumS wrote:


This is a series of issues that are not necessarily related in any way. You are drawing the lines between the dots yourselves.


There are certain racist elements in Israeli society. There is also an element of national struggle between two peoples. Jewish cemeteries and synagogues are defaced regularly by Arabs as well.


None of it is acceptable. Football hooliganism, vandalism and all the rest should never be tolerated - against anyone.


Re: Ethiopian immigrants - there is always some resentment and discrimination against newer waves of immigration. I've been in Israel for 26 years -and there are some people who still mock my American accent. The Ethiopians come from a much less advanced society and many have found it difficult to "catch up". Some Israelis are unkind and unwelcoming, and prefer stereotypes to giving others a chance.


But most of us are very happy that this long-separated community has rejoined our people. They have been given tremendous financial help in setting up homes, and there are many educational programs that help their children integrate. I have taught in these programs and am currently involved with one - encouraging literacy and use of the library. A number of mistakes have been made in absorbing the Ethiopian community - but no other country has, or would, take on this kind of challenge.


Regarding the "West Bank" (it's called that because the Jordanians from the Jordan's East Bank illegally invaded the area and annexed it between 1948-1967 when they attacked Israel and lost control over this area)- true, Jews have moved here. The Arab population has not decreased as a result, and their standard of living has only improved because of the Jewish presence. Most of the "settlements" (I prefer Jewish communities) were bult on barren state land, or on land that was Jews owned prior to their expulsion in 1948.


The only racism here is to assume that Jews have no right to live in the heartland of Biblical Israel, in the places that are so much a part of our history and heritage - and that was designated for "dense Jewish settlement" by international agreement by the League of Nations. There is plenty of room for all of us to live together in peace and mutual respect. There is nothing racist about a Jewish presence in our homeland. Denying us this right is the epitome of racism and ethnic cleansing.





Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 3:10AM #10
NahumS
Posts: 1,761

I think that some of the hostility against Arabs (and I don't mean to justify hostility to an entire group) has something to do with violence and terror towards Jews.  While we are a majority in Israel, we are a tiny minority in the Middle East and and an even smaller one in the world.


I see being a majority in our own homeland as a quality that can make us more generous, more open, more tolerant and more accepting of a minority, rather than an invitation to racism. If you feel secure in your home, you are more likely to treat others fairly. If you feel threatened (as many Israelis do by Arab terror) then you can easily fall into the trap of rejecting the other.


The solution is education, dialogue and no tolerance for violence on any level - whether it be terror or grafitti. And using the language of Apartheid contributes nothing to mutual respect, understanding or containing the conflict.

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