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Switch to Forum Live View Here's how we could save $4 billion a year
2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 3:18PM #1
Cesmom
Posts: 4,641
Undocumented workers have been taking advantage of a loophole called the Additional Child Tax Credit, a fully-refundable credit of up to $1,000 per child that was intended to help working families with children living at home. Not only are they claiming children within the U.S., they are also claiming children in Mexico.

Read more: dailycaller.com/2012/04/30/irs-loophole-...


Wow...two million undocumented workers getting refunds based on fraudulent tax returns, and the IRS refuses to address the problem.  This is disturbing.  

www.wthr.com/video?autoStart=true&topVid...
 
 
Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 3:33PM #2
SecondSonOfDavid
Posts: 3,344

May 3, 2012 -- 3:18PM, Cesmom wrote:

Undocumented workers have been taking advantage of a loophole called the Additional Child Tax Credit, a fully-refundable credit of up to $1,000 per child that was intended to help working families with children living at home. Not only are they claiming children within the U.S., they are also claiming children in Mexico.

Read more: dailycaller.com/2012/04/30/irs-loophole-...


Wow...two million undocumented workers getting refunds based on fraudulent tax returns, and the IRS refuses to address the problem.  This is disturbing.  

www.wthr.com/video?autoStart=true&topVid...
 
 




Grain of salt time.



1.  If these people are illegal aliens, how are they able to file taxes?


2.  On what basis do you know the returns are "fraudulent"?  

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 3:36PM #3
Bodean
Posts: 9,394

Add that $4 Billion to the $8 Billion spent on free cell phones in SSI ...


We're up to a 12 Billion cut.


Let's see just how many billions we can cut without touching the Big Entitlements and Military.

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 3:43PM #4
Cesmom
Posts: 4,641

May 3, 2012 -- 3:33PM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 3:18PM, Cesmom wrote:

Undocumented workers have been taking advantage of a loophole called the Additional Child Tax Credit, a fully-refundable credit of up to $1,000 per child that was intended to help working families with children living at home. Not only are they claiming children within the U.S., they are also claiming children in Mexico.

Read more: dailycaller.com/2012/04/30/irs-loophole-...


Wow...two million undocumented workers getting refunds based on fraudulent tax returns, and the IRS refuses to address the problem.  This is disturbing.  

www.wthr.com/video?autoStart=true&topVid...
 
 




Grain of salt time.



1.  If these people are illegal aliens, how are they able to file taxes?


2.  On what basis do you know the returns are "fraudulent"?  




As noted in the story, they are able to file returns using their "individual taxpayer identification number", which was created by the IRS to ensure that illegals were paying taxes.  There are several examples of fraudulent returns noted in the story as well.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 3:55PM #5
Cesmom
Posts: 4,641

May 3, 2012 -- 3:36PM, Bodean wrote:


Add that $4 Billion to the $8 Billion spent on free cell phones in SSI ...


We're up to a 12 Billion cut.


Let's see just how many billions we can cut without touching the Big Entitlements and Military.




I'm not sure how I feel about the whole idea of a free cell phone, but I can understand the logic behind having a phone in every household, which seems to be the idea behind the whole Lifeline program.  It provides a landline OR cell phone with 250 minutes per month for low income people.  I can see the safety concern of not having a phone in the household, particularly households with young children.  Of all of the aspects of welfare, I'm not sure this would be the first one I would focus on cutting.  I would rather see cash payments cut before this one.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 3:56PM #6
SecondSonOfDavid
Posts: 3,344

May 3, 2012 -- 3:43PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 3:33PM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 3:18PM, Cesmom wrote:

Undocumented workers have been taking advantage of a loophole called the Additional Child Tax Credit, a fully-refundable credit of up to $1,000 per child that was intended to help working families with children living at home. Not only are they claiming children within the U.S., they are also claiming children in Mexico.

Read more: dailycaller.com/2012/04/30/irs-loophole-...


Wow...two million undocumented workers getting refunds based on fraudulent tax returns, and the IRS refuses to address the problem.  This is disturbing.  

www.wthr.com/video?autoStart=true&topVid...
 
 




Grain of salt time.



1.  If these people are illegal aliens, how are they able to file taxes?


2.  On what basis do you know the returns are "fraudulent"?  




As noted in the story, they are able to file returns using their "individual taxpayer identification number", which was created by the IRS to ensure that illegals were paying taxes.  There are several examples of fraudulent returns noted in the story as well.




1. by definition, if these people are able to file tax returns using government-generated numbers, they are not illegally working here.


2. The article claims the returns are fraud.  Where is the evidence?


That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 3:57PM #7
Bodean
Posts: 9,394

May 3, 2012 -- 3:55PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 3:36PM, Bodean wrote:


Add that $4 Billion to the $8 Billion spent on free cell phones in SSI ...


We're up to a 12 Billion cut.


Let's see just how many billions we can cut without touching the Big Entitlements and Military.




I'm not sure how I feel about the whole idea of a free cell phone, but I can understand the logic behind having a phone in every household, which seems to be the idea behind the whole Lifeline program.  It provides a landline OR cell phone with 250 minutes per month for low income people.  I can see the safety concern of not having a phone in the household, particularly households with young children.  Of all of the aspects of welfare, I'm not sure this would be the first one I would focus on cutting.  I would rather see cash payments cut before this one.





Well .. I'll let you tell that to the nurse the other day who was pissed off about one of her patients who has two cell phones .. one is his .. the other is a freebee from SSI.


Ya know ...it all kinda falls in the "abuse" column.

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 4:17PM #8
Cesmom
Posts: 4,641

May 3, 2012 -- 3:56PM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 3:43PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 3:33PM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 3:18PM, Cesmom wrote:

Undocumented workers have been taking advantage of a loophole called the Additional Child Tax Credit, a fully-refundable credit of up to $1,000 per child that was intended to help working families with children living at home. Not only are they claiming children within the U.S., they are also claiming children in Mexico.

Read more: dailycaller.com/2012/04/30/irs-loophole-...


Wow...two million undocumented workers getting refunds based on fraudulent tax returns, and the IRS refuses to address the problem.  This is disturbing.  

www.wthr.com/video?autoStart=true&topVid...
 
 




Grain of salt time.



1.  If these people are illegal aliens, how are they able to file taxes?


2.  On what basis do you know the returns are "fraudulent"?  




As noted in the story, they are able to file returns using their "individual taxpayer identification number", which was created by the IRS to ensure that illegals were paying taxes.  There are several examples of fraudulent returns noted in the story as well.




1. by definition, if these people are able to file tax returns using government-generated numbers, they are not illegally working here.


2. The article claims the returns are fraud.  Where is the evidence?





1 -- All Americans, whether legal or illegal, who earn income are required by law to file taxes, but doing so requires having a social security number which illegal immigrants aren’t supposed to have. The IRS remedied this by created the individual taxpayer identification number. 


2 -- Where is the evidence?  There obviously is none...the Inspector General must just be paranoid, right?  After all, he's the one who has repeatedly brought the problem to the attention of the IRS, only to fall on deaf ears.




Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 4:18PM #9
Cesmom
Posts: 4,641

May 3, 2012 -- 3:57PM, Bodean wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 3:55PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 3:36PM, Bodean wrote:


Add that $4 Billion to the $8 Billion spent on free cell phones in SSI ...


We're up to a 12 Billion cut.


Let's see just how many billions we can cut without touching the Big Entitlements and Military.




I'm not sure how I feel about the whole idea of a free cell phone, but I can understand the logic behind having a phone in every household, which seems to be the idea behind the whole Lifeline program.  It provides a landline OR cell phone with 250 minutes per month for low income people.  I can see the safety concern of not having a phone in the household, particularly households with young children.  Of all of the aspects of welfare, I'm not sure this would be the first one I would focus on cutting.  I would rather see cash payments cut before this one.





Well .. I'll let you tell that to the nurse the other day who was pissed off about one of her patients who has two cell phones .. one is his .. the other is a freebee from SSI.


Ya know ...it all kinda falls in the "abuse" column.




True, but some forms of abuse are easier to spot and address than others.  In this case, the IRS seems to be deliberately 'sleeping on the job.'

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 4:39PM #10
SecondSonOfDavid
Posts: 3,344

May 3, 2012 -- 4:17PM, Cesmom wrote:


1 -- All Americans, whether legal or illegal, who earn income are required by law to file taxes, but doing so requires having a social security number which illegal immigrants aren’t supposed to have. The IRS remedied this by created the individual taxpayer identification number.



Are you seriously claiming that the IRS created identificaiton numbers specifically to be used by people ineligible to work here?


Sorry but you are way off base here.


The fact is, people who work legally in the US have a variety of conditions, ranging from citizen to legal resident to temporary worker.  The IRS created the ID numbers you refer to, not to allow illegals to work here, but to allow legal workers who are not eligible for SSI to have a means to pay their taxes.  


You should consider that very few illegals would be reckless enough to break the law in working here, then identify themselves, complete with an address where they live and work, so they could be apprehended!




May 3, 2012 -- 4:17PM, Cesmom wrote:


2 -- Where is the evidence?  There obviously is none...the Inspector General must just be paranoid, right?  After all, he's the one who has repeatedly brought the problem to the attention of the IRS, only to fall on deaf ears.




Just.


Not.


True.



Imagine, for example, if the IRS tried to freeze your bank account on the claim that you had money in there that they believed you did not declare on your taxes.  


You, or rather your attorney, would demand they prove their claim, and if they could not do so, the IRS would be liable for false cause.  


Well, the same thing applies here.  The media story is just that, a story, with no more proof than the fairy tale of your choice.  I have known a ciouple IRS agents in my time, and they love to chase down low-hanging fruit like situations you describe.  Only thing is, they depend on evidence, not assumption.


I get it, it's fun for a lot of people to attack the IRS and its agents, but this story has no more weight than a helium balloon.



That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier.
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