May 2, 2012 -- 5:35PM, teilhard wrote:

Uh huh ...

The Taliban had NO Idea who Osama bin Laden was and what al Qaida was doing ...

Uh huh ...

I have no idea why you would make such juvenile statements....that isn't what I said -- anything close to what I said, so what are you talking about?

May 2, 2012 -- 6:05PM, ted08721 wrote:

His speech the other night made me want to vomit.

Me too.

Thanks for the link:

davidswanson.org/node/3672?utm_source=tw...

Did you read the article "We Did Not Choose This War and other Hypocrisies" yet, written by a vet?

May 2, 2012 -- 5:35PM, teilhard wrote:

Uh huh ...

The Taliban had NO Idea who Osama bin Laden was and what al Qaida was doing ...

Uh huh ...

What the Taliban did or did not know was not the point brought up.  Physical evidence directly linking Osama to a terrorist attack in a materialistic manner was what was requested.  I say materialistic because vocal support of terrorist activitity is not illegal.  So, all we had to do was provide physical evidence that Osama was physically involved in any of the terrorist attacks associated with him.  That should not have been so hard for a nation that believes in the concept of Justice, should it?

May 2, 2012 -- 5:12PM, rabello wrote:

May 2, 2012 -- 3:28PM, teilhard wrote:

Yes and No ...

Just yesterday, Federal Authorities arrested five Guys who were planning to blow-up a Bridge in a major American City ... In Fact, they actively TRIED to do so -- WHILE there were innocent Persons/Families crossing the Bridge ...

THAT is something a "Normal" Country does ...

After the 9-11-2001 Attack, IF Afghanistan HAD been a "Normal" Country the Authorities there WOULD have sought out and arrested Osama bin Laden and turned him over for Trial ... Instead, they treated the whole Matter as a Joke ... thus sealing THEIR Fate ...

False analogy.  The "authorities" in Afghanistan were the Taliban, the group we wanted to overthrow (how's that workin' for ya hawks???) and that is because the Taliban took control of the country through civil war, partly with the help we gave them.  The Bush administration even gave them aid in spite of the known human rights abuses they were guilty of.    Their "fate was sealed" the day Bush decided to use preemptive "war" as a way to seek vengeance.   You actually believe he wouldn't have done what he did had he personally been able to escort bin Laden to his Gitmo? 

It is a little more complicated than that, I fear.

The Taliban were mostly young Pashtun madrassah students who grew up in refugee camps in Pakistan (I believe "talib" actually means "student.") Most were too young to take part in the mujahedeen uprising against the Soviets, and when that was over and the diverse guerrilla groups fell to fighting amongst themselves the Taliban, who were well organized, ideologically pure, Sunni, and ethnically homogeneous, were able to fill the power vacuum and restore order in singularly brutal fashion.

Since the US and the west had lost interest in Afghanistan they had no material resources and were very much in need of funding, so the alliance with the wealthy Arab foreigners was a no-brainer. And in return they extended hospitality to the al Qaeda leadership in accordance with Pashtun traditions that were thousands of years old.

There was no way to dislodge al Qaeda without also dislodging the Taliban. And the Afghan people were certainly not going to be worse off for it, for a more brutal, misogynistic, and genocidal regime than the Taliban would be difficult to imagine.

It is possible the subsequent nation-building effort was doomed to failure anyway, but it might have had a fighting chance if the West's attention and resources had not been diverted to the neocon's other project in Iraq.

I fully agree ... 

The Complications, Expenses and Distractions of The Iraq War GREATLY added to the already huge Distress and Mess of Afghanistan ...

At the same Time ... I ALSO agree that The Nations of The World OUGHT to have taken greater Responsibility for The Iraq Problem -- but didn't ...

May 3, 2012 -- 11:13AM, Jasr wrote:

May 2, 2012 -- 5:12PM, rabello wrote:

May 2, 2012 -- 3:28PM, teilhard wrote:

Yes and No ...

Just yesterday, Federal Authorities arrested five Guys who were planning to blow-up a Bridge in a major American City ... In Fact, they actively TRIED to do so -- WHILE there were innocent Persons/Families crossing the Bridge ...

THAT is something a "Normal" Country does ...

After the 9-11-2001 Attack, IF Afghanistan HAD been a "Normal" Country the Authorities there WOULD have sought out and arrested Osama bin Laden and turned him over for Trial ... Instead, they treated the whole Matter as a Joke ... thus sealing THEIR Fate ...

False analogy.  The "authorities" in Afghanistan were the Taliban, the group we wanted to overthrow (how's that workin' for ya hawks???) and that is because the Taliban took control of the country through civil war, partly with the help we gave them.  The Bush administration even gave them aid in spite of the known human rights abuses they were guilty of.    Their "fate was sealed" the day Bush decided to use preemptive "war" as a way to seek vengeance.   You actually believe he wouldn't have done what he did had he personally been able to escort bin Laden to his Gitmo? 

It is a little more complicated than that, I fear.

The Taliban were mostly young Pashtun madrassah students who grew up in refugee camps in Pakistan (I believe "talib" actually means "student.") Most were too young to take part in the mujahedeen uprising against the Soviets, and when that was over and the diverse guerrilla groups fell to fighting amongst themselves the Taliban, who were well organized, ideologically pure, Sunni, and ethnically homogeneous, were able to fill the power vacuum and restore order in singularly brutal fashion.

Since the US and the west had lost interest in Afghanistan they had no material resources and were very much in need of funding, so the alliance with the wealthy Arab foreigners was a no-brainer. And in return they extended hospitality to the al Qaeda leadership in accordance with Pashtun traditions that were thousands of years old.

There was no way to dislodge al Qaeda without also dislodging the Taliban. And the Afghan people were certainly not going to be worse off for it, for a more brutal, misogynistic, and genocidal regime than the Taliban would be difficult to imagine.

It is possible the subsequent nation-building effort was doomed to failure anyway, but it might have had a fighting chance if the West's attention and resources had not been diverted to the neocon's other project in Iraq.