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Switch to Forum Live View Taliban Kill 7 in Afghan Capital after Obama Leaves
2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 12:25PM #11
teilhard
Posts: 48,390

The other HUGE Problem in Afghanistan that President O'Bama is completely helpless to solve is the astonishing Level of Corruption that Society ...


The People of Afghanistan will indeed sleep in the Bed THEY make ...


May 2, 2012 -- 12:07PM, catboxer wrote:


Obama pulled off a neat disappearing trick in his little speechette last night.


He identified the enemy and the reason we're over there as al Qaida, and said nothing about the Taliban.


This was pretty clever, since al Qaida is a dying organization and the Taliban is going to win in Afghanistan. Anybody who thinks about this war for more than two seconds knows this.


The reason they're going to win is because they live there and we don't.





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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 12:41PM #12
rabello
Posts: 19,338

May 2, 2012 -- 12:07PM, catboxer wrote:


Obama pulled off a neat disappearing trick in his little speechette last night.


He identified the enemy and the reason we're over there as al Qaida, and said nothing about the Taliban.


This was pretty clever, since al Qaida is a dying organization and the Taliban is going to win in Afghanistan. Anybody who thinks about this war for more than two seconds knows this.


The reason they're going to win is because they live there and we don't.




I like (/NOT!) how he turned it into a "war" (actually, military invasion/occupation) of "liberation" instead of a "war" of "preemption, with "us" and "them" fighting a common enemy.    Since when?


The rhetoric works to his favor, as it always does....some people will just gulp down the koolaid. 


Well, if soldiers are going to be there till 2024 (lucky for Karzai) they'd better do something about the out-of-control ones -- the ones that go to houses and murder and burn, kill for sport and take "trophies" for their photo albums, those who pose with body parts for their photo albums, urinate on killed corpses for ther photo albums, etc etc etc.

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 12:47PM #13
teilhard
Posts: 48,390

I agree that IF The "Government" of Afghanistan (such as it is -- corrupt and ineffective) and The People of Afghanistan WANT our Help, then THEY (The PEOPLE of Afghanistan) must STOP attacking their American and Allied Helpers ...


May 2, 2012 -- 12:41PM, rabello wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 12:07PM, catboxer wrote:


Obama pulled off a neat disappearing trick in his little speechette last night.


He identified the enemy and the reason we're over there as al Qaida, and said nothing about the Taliban.


This was pretty clever, since al Qaida is a dying organization and the Taliban is going to win in Afghanistan. Anybody who thinks about this war for more than two seconds knows this.


The reason they're going to win is because they live there and we don't.




I like (/NOT!) how he turned it into a "war" (actually, military invasion/occupation) of "liberation" instead of a "war" of "preemption, with "us" and "them" fighting a common enemy.    Since when?


The rhetoric works to his favor, as it always does....some people will just gulp down the koolaid. 


Well, if soldiers are going to be there till 2024 (lucky for Karzai) they'd better do something about the out-of-control ones -- the ones that go to houses and murder and burn, kill for sport and take "trophies" for their photo albums, those who pose with body parts for their photo albums, urinate on killed corpses for ther photo albums, etc etc etc.





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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 1:06PM #14
rabello
Posts: 19,338

Just to be clear, in view of your typical posting style, that is NOT what I said.  That's what you (and other ObamaBots) said/say, just like that's what the BushBots said/say.  Perhaps you don't keep up with current events if you think the things I listed didn't happen.


Nonetheless, your blanket condemnation of ALL the people of an entire nation living in, basically, a dictatorship, is off the mark.  Apparently, you don't know that the Taliban came to power by winning a totally predictable civil war that erupted because of the Soviet invasion of that country, partly because we -- the US -- helped to arm them to fight the Soviets.  


Speaking of the Soviets...did you blame those people, too, for living with a boot on their throats.  

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 1:27PM #15
teilhard
Posts: 48,390

Yes ... I know how The Taliban come to Power in Afghanistan ... That was back in the 1980s ... THIS is the Year 2012 ...


EITHER The People of Afghanistan will take meaningful Control of their Country and their Destiny -- or they WON'T ... As long as The People of Afghanistan "waffle" and waver in their ongoing Support of (Submission to) The Taliban, their Future doesn't appear very promising ...


But, yes ... Eventually ... Finally ... The PEOPLE of the several and various Republics of The Soviet Union toppled their Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist OverLords ... And I applaud them for that ... That happened also in The (former) Soviet East Bloc Nations ... Big Hooray for them also ... !!! I also approved of The VietNamese Invasion and Overthrow of the murderous Khmer Rouge Regime in Camdodia ...


Sometimes  SOMEBODY simply must stand up and do what NEEDS to be done ... HandWringing and pretentious Self-Righteousness help NOBODY ...


May 2, 2012 -- 1:06PM, rabello wrote:


Just to be clear, in view of your typical posting style, that is NOT what I said.  That's what you (and other ObamaBots) said/say, just like that's what the BushBots said/say.  Perhaps you don't keep up with current events if you think the things I listed didn't happen.


Nonetheless, your blanket condemnation of ALL the people of an entire nation living in, basically, a dictatorship, is off the mark.  Apparently, you don't know that the Taliban came to power by winning a totally predictable civil war that erupted because of the Soviet invasion of that country, partly because we -- the US -- helped to arm them to fight the Soviets.  


Speaking of the Soviets...did you blame those people, too, for living with a boot on their throats.  





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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 1:53PM #16
rabello
Posts: 19,338

May 2, 2012 -- 1:27PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes ... I know how The Taliban come to Power in Afghanistan ... That was back in the 1980s ... THIS is the Year 2012 ...




More like the 90s, but you don't think the past has its consequences on the present? (except for America, of course)


May 2, 2012 -- 1:27PM, teilhard wrote:


EITHER The People of Afghanistan will take meaningful Control of their Country and their Destiny -- or they WON'T ... As long as The People of Afghanistan "waffle" and waver in their ongoing Support of (Submission to) The Taliban, their Future doesn't appear very promising ...




As if.  What, exactly, do you "expect" them to do from your quarterback's armchair?

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 2:02PM #17
catboxer
Posts: 13,715

"Needs" to be done? According to whom?


Here's what your president (gotta be yours 'cause he ain't none o' mine) has felt needed to be done just since he whacked bin Laden -- the comprehensive list from Salon's Glenn Greenwald:


*With large bipartisan majorities, Congress renewed the once-controversial Patriot Act without a single reform, and it was signed into law by President Obama; Harry Reid accused those urging reforms of putting the country at risk of a Terrorist attack.

* For the first time, perhaps ever, a U.S. citizen was assassinated by the CIA, on orders from the President, without a shred of due process and far from any battlefield; two weeks later, his 16-year-old American son was also killed by his own government; the U.S. Attorney General then gave a speech claiming the President has the power to target U.S. citizens for death based on unproven, secret accusations of Terrorism.

* With large bipartisan majorities, Congress enacted, and the President signed, a new law codifying presidential powers of worldwide indefinite detention and an expanded statutory defintion of the War on Terror.

* Construction neared completion for a sprawling new site in Utah for the National Security Agency to enable massive domestic surveillance and to achieve “the realization of the ‘total information awareness’ program created during the first term of the Bush administration.”

* President Obama authorized the use of “signature” drone strikes in Yemen, whereby the CIA can target people for death “even when the identity of those who could be killed is not known.”

* The U.S. formally expanded its drone attacks in Somalia, “reopening a base for the unmanned aircraft on the island nation of Seychelles.”

* A U.S. drone killed 16-year-old Pakistani Tariq Aziz, along with his 12-year-old cousin, Waheed, three days after the older boy attended a meeting to protest civilian deaths from U.S. drones (another of Tariq’s cousins had been killed in 2010).

* NATO airstrikes continued to extinguish the lives of Afghan children; in just the last 24 hours, 5 more Afghan children were killed by the ongoing war.

* The FBI increased its aggressive attempts to recruit young Muslim-American males into Terror plots which the FBI concocts, funds, encourages, directs and enables, while prosecuting more and more Muslims in the U.S. for crimes grounded in their political views and speech.


He's got it complete with links to documentation if you should wish to see it.


It's not the Afghans' peace and freedom I'm worried about; it's ours.

Adepto vestri stercore simul.ttr
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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 3:04PM #18
teilhard
Posts: 48,390

The Soviets got their Butts Kicked throughout the 80s and left Afghanistan in '89 ...


Indeed ... from my quite safe and comfy Life in Minnesota I have essentially NO Capacity to assist The Afghan People  to become a NORMAL Country ... unless/until ... THEY decide collectively that they WISH to become such, in which Case as a relatively wealthy Citizen of The World, I CAN contribute to their Development ... Exactly so ...


The PEOPLE of Afghanistan either will or will not once again submit to the Brutality of The Taliban ... They either will or will not abandon Corruption over Time ... 


However ... IF The Government (such as it is) of Aghanistan and The People of Afghanistan ever again intentionally harbor Terrorists such as al Qaida and allow their Territory to be the Base for Terror Attacks against innocent American Citizens ... we know their Address ...


May 2, 2012 -- 1:53PM, rabello wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 1:27PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes ... I know how The Taliban come to Power in Afghanistan ... That was back in the 1980s ... THIS is the Year 2012 ...




More like the 90s, but you don't think the past has its consequences on the present? (except for America, of course)


May 2, 2012 -- 1:27PM, teilhard wrote:


EITHER The People of Afghanistan will take meaningful Control of their Country and their Destiny -- or they WON'T ... As long as The People of Afghanistan "waffle" and waver in their ongoing Support of (Submission to) The Taliban, their Future doesn't appear very promising ...




As if.  What, exactly, do you "expect" them to do from your quarterback's armchair?





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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 3:05PM #19
teilhard
Posts: 48,390

"Needs to be done" by proper legitimate Authorities who have the Capability to Intervene ...


May 2, 2012 -- 2:02PM, catboxer wrote:


"Needs" to be done? According to whom?


Here's what your president (gotta be yours 'cause he ain't none o' mine) has felt needed to be done just since he whacked bin Laden -- the comprehensive list from Salon's Glenn Greenwald:


*With large bipartisan majorities, Congress renewed the once-controversial Patriot Act without a single reform, and it was signed into law by President Obama; Harry Reid accused those urging reforms of putting the country at risk of a Terrorist attack.

* For the first time, perhaps ever, a U.S. citizen was assassinated by the CIA, on orders from the President, without a shred of due process and far from any battlefield; two weeks later, his 16-year-old American son was also killed by his own government; the U.S. Attorney General then gave a speech claiming the President has the power to target U.S. citizens for death based on unproven, secret accusations of Terrorism.

* With large bipartisan majorities, Congress enacted, and the President signed, a new law codifying presidential powers of worldwide indefinite detention and an expanded statutory defintion of the War on Terror.

* Construction neared completion for a sprawling new site in Utah for the National Security Agency to enable massive domestic surveillance and to achieve “the realization of the ‘total information awareness’ program created during the first term of the Bush administration.”

* President Obama authorized the use of “signature” drone strikes in Yemen, whereby the CIA can target people for death “even when the identity of those who could be killed is not known.”

* The U.S. formally expanded its drone attacks in Somalia, “reopening a base for the unmanned aircraft on the island nation of Seychelles.”

* A U.S. drone killed 16-year-old Pakistani Tariq Aziz, along with his 12-year-old cousin, Waheed, three days after the older boy attended a meeting to protest civilian deaths from U.S. drones (another of Tariq’s cousins had been killed in 2010).

* NATO airstrikes continued to extinguish the lives of Afghan children; in just the last 24 hours, 5 more Afghan children were killed by the ongoing war.

* The FBI increased its aggressive attempts to recruit young Muslim-American males into Terror plots which the FBI concocts, funds, encourages, directs and enables, while prosecuting more and more Muslims in the U.S. for crimes grounded in their political views and speech.


He's got it complete with links to documentation if you should wish to see it.


It's not the Afghans' peace and freedom I'm worried about; it's ours.





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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 3:16PM #20
catboxer
Posts: 13,715

May 2, 2012 -- 3:04PM, teilhard wrote:


...from my quite safe and comfy Life in Minnesota I have essentially NO Capacity to assist The Afghan People  to become a NORMAL Country ...




By "normal," I hope you don't mean "like us."

Adepto vestri stercore simul.ttr
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