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Switch to Forum Live View Taliban Kill 7 in Afghan Capital after Obama Leaves
2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 3:28PM #21
teilhard
Posts: 51,364

Yes and No ...


Just yesterday, Federal Authorities arrested five Guys who were planning to blow-up a Bridge in a major American City ... In Fact, they actively TRIED to do so -- WHILE there were innocent Persons/Families crossing the Bridge ...


THAT is something a "Normal" Country does ...


After the 9-11-2001 Attack, IF Afghanistan HAD been a "Normal" Country the Authorities there WOULD have sought out and arrested Osama bin Laden and turned him over for Trial ... Instead, they treated the whole Matter as a Joke ... thus sealing THEIR Fate ...


But ...


If you imagine that your Life and Liberty would be better served by "living and moving and having your being" in some OTHER (IDEAL !!!) Country ... Which one would that be ... ??? Cuba ... ???  China ... ???  Russia ... ???  Saudi Arabia ... ???  Syria ... ???  "Palestine" ... ???  WHERE ... ???


May 2, 2012 -- 3:16PM, catboxer wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 3:04PM, teilhard wrote:


...from my quite safe and comfy Life in Minnesota I have essentially NO Capacity to assist The Afghan People  to become a NORMAL Country ...




By "normal," I hope you don't mean "like us."





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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 3:46PM #22
Druac
Posts: 12,080

This is what happens when you try to nation build and you invade...ALWAYS.


If we would have ACTUALLY just carpet bombed the nation when they refused to hand over the terrorists...and pulverized all forms of military and communication, the country would be right where it seems to want to be, in the stone age…and of NO threat to us.

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 4:30PM #23
Nepenthe
Posts: 2,720

May 2, 2012 -- 3:28PM, teilhard wrote:

After the 9-11-2001 Attack, IF Afghanistan HAD been a "Normal" Country the Authorities there WOULD have sought out and arrested Osama bin Laden and turned him over for Trial ... Instead, they treated the whole Matter as a Joke ... thus sealing THEIR Fate ...




So, this is one factor in what a normal country would do?  Then Cat's point is proven, The US is not a normal country.  Afterall, the executive branch of the US currently shields high ranking members of our government who have committed well-documented crimes from prosecution, and as you say no normal country would do such a thing.

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 5:04PM #24
rabello
Posts: 21,638

May 2, 2012 -- 3:46PM, Druac wrote:


This is what happens when you try to nation build and you invade...ALWAYS.


If we would have ACTUALLY just carpet bombed the nation when they refused to hand over the terrorists...and pulverized all forms of military and communication, the country would be right where it seems to want to be, in the stone age…and of NO threat to us.




Wow


Is all I can say, except for this:


They DID offer to turn over Osama bin Laden, if the Bush administration could provide evidence that bin Laden was guilty.  The Bush administration was characteristically hostile to the request, and the rest is history.  Whether Sheik Omar was serious or not, we can never know, they weren't given the chance.


Apparently some of our remaining hawks have forgotton how bloodthirsty Americans' need to take revenge was back in Dec 2001.

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 5:12PM #25
rabello
Posts: 21,638

May 2, 2012 -- 3:28PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes and No ...


Just yesterday, Federal Authorities arrested five Guys who were planning to blow-up a Bridge in a major American City ... In Fact, they actively TRIED to do so -- WHILE there were innocent Persons/Families crossing the Bridge ...


THAT is something a "Normal" Country does ...


After the 9-11-2001 Attack, IF Afghanistan HAD been a "Normal" Country the Authorities there WOULD have sought out and arrested Osama bin Laden and turned him over for Trial ... Instead, they treated the whole Matter as a Joke ... thus sealing THEIR Fate ...




False analogy.  The "authorities" in Afghanistan were the Taliban, the group we wanted to overthrow (how's that workin' for ya hawks???) and that is because the Taliban took control of the country through civil war, partly with the help we gave them.  The Bush administration even gave them aid in spite of the known human rights abuses they were guilty of.    Their "fate was sealed" the day Bush decided to use preemptive "war" as a way to seek vengeance.   You actually believe he wouldn't have done what he did had he personally been able to escort bin Laden to his Gitmo? 

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 5:19PM #26
rabello
Posts: 21,638

May 2, 2012 -- 3:04PM, teilhard wrote:


The Soviets got their Butts Kicked throughout the 80s and left Afghanistan in '89 ...




That isn't when the Taliban rose to power.


Blame Bush the First for turning his back on the people of that country after his own nemesis, the Soviets ended their siege, although Clinton doesn't get any credit for standing up for the human rights of the Afghan people.   Blame Bush the Second for giving the Taliban millions (if not billions) in aid in spite of their human rights abuses.


So much for "normal" countries where the people are terrorized and oppressed through violence and killing and torture and imprisonment by an extremist minority that gets a free pass and money from the world's most militaristic & lethal superpower and it's allies

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 5:34PM #27
teilhard
Posts: 51,364

It could well be that we would have gotten better Results by a more Forceful Response to 9-11 ...


May 2, 2012 -- 3:46PM, Druac wrote:


This is what happens when you try to nation build and you invade...ALWAYS.


If we would have ACTUALLY just carpet bombed the nation when they refused to hand over the terrorists...and pulverized all forms of military and communication, the country would be right where it seems to want to be, in the stone age…and of NO threat to us.





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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 5:35PM #28
teilhard
Posts: 51,364

Uh huh ...


The Taliban had NO Idea who Osama bin Laden was and what al Qaida was doing ...


Uh huh ...


May 2, 2012 -- 5:04PM, rabello wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 3:46PM, Druac wrote:


This is what happens when you try to nation build and you invade...ALWAYS.


If we would have ACTUALLY just carpet bombed the nation when they refused to hand over the terrorists...and pulverized all forms of military and communication, the country would be right where it seems to want to be, in the stone age…and of NO threat to us.




Wow


Is all I can say, except for this:


They DID offer to turn over Osama bin Laden, if the Bush administration could provide evidence that bin Laden was guilty.  The Bush administration was characteristically hostile to the request, and the rest is history.  Whether Sheik Omar was serious or not, we can never know, they weren't given the chance.


Apparently some of our remaining hawks have forgotton how bloodthirsty Americans' need to take revenge was back in Dec 2001.





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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 5:55PM #29
teilhard
Posts: 51,364

"Afghanistan" indeed was and remains essentially un-Governable ...


If and when the PEOPLE of Afghanistan decide that they want to overthrow Corruption and REJECT the violent Rule of Tribal Chiefs and The Taliban ... then perhaps Afghanistan can START to begin to become a "Normal" Country ...


May 2, 2012 -- 5:19PM, rabello wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 3:04PM, teilhard wrote:


The Soviets got their Butts Kicked throughout the 80s and left Afghanistan in '89 ...




That isn't when the Taliban rose to power.


Blame Bush the First for turning his back on the people of that country after his own nemesis, the Soviets ended their siege, although Clinton doesn't get any credit for standing up for the human rights of the Afghan people.   Blame Bush the Second for giving the Taliban millions (if not billions) in aid in spite of their human rights abuses.


So much for "normal" countries where the people are terrorized and oppressed through violence and killing and torture and imprisonment by an extremist minority that gets a free pass and money from the world's most militaristic & lethal superpower and it's allies





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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 6:05PM #30
ted08721
Posts: 3,757

May 2, 2012 -- 9:22AM, Girlchristian wrote:

**Please note, I am NOT blaming these deaths on Obama or his visit. Smile



 





Oh no well I am along with the deaths of civilians, he could give the order to pull up camp.
His speech the other night made me want to vomit.

I like this response to Obama's speech


davidswanson.org/node/3672?utm_source=tw...

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