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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 2:51PM #21
Jasr
Posts: 11,057

Apr 30, 2012 -- 12:52PM, TENAC wrote:


His final question to them at the end of the inerview was "Ok, if hired, I have two people who can train you, one will start Monday at 6:00, the other will start at 9:00, which do you want to work with?"  "Oh," she said, "I couldnt possible begin until I drop my daughter at daycare at 7:00."


The guy chose 6:00 and got the job.


Sounds cruel?  Unfair?  The height of inequality?




Sounds like a very risky hiring practice actually. Where I work we are trained to avoid questions designed to elicit family information that is off-limits to an employer.


When I hire I describe the requirements of the position...for example, we work some long hours and do a lot of work at night and on weekends. I always describe these requirements and ask if the candidate anticipates any trouble meeting them. It's either yes or no. Anything more is none of my business.


I have difficulty believing that a sales job requires a candidate to be available at 6:00 AM. This is clearly a question designed to weed out people with young children. If there is no business need, the question is unacceptable. If there is a business need the business need must be stated up front, and the candidate needs to make a decision on whether he or she can meet the need.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 3:09PM #22
Cesmom
Posts: 4,584

Let's keep in mind that about a quarter of all women these days are deciding not to have children.  Add to that a certain percentage of women who have actively involved husbands taking part in the child rearing process.  It seems to me that automatically assuming women are going to be less career dedicated and require more time off is a very narrow sighted way to look at it.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

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More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 3:13PM #23
TENAC
Posts: 25,069
You work in the medical field, correct?  Generally in my area hospitals will shift change at 7:00 am and pm.  You inservice both shifts.  I'll leave it there.
Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 3:21PM #24
TENAC
Posts: 25,069
Cmom your suggesting employers plan on the exceptions, not the rule.
Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 3:21PM #25
TENAC
Posts: 25,069
Cmom your suggesting employers plan on the exceptions, not the rule.
Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 3:25PM #26
amcolph
Posts: 17,148

Apr 30, 2012 -- 3:21PM, TENAC wrote:

Cmom your suggesting employers plan on the exceptions, not the rule.



I believe that what she is suggesting is that the "rule" is based on magical thinking.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 3:25PM #27
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,034

Apr 30, 2012 -- 3:09PM, Cesmom wrote:


Let's keep in mind that about a quarter of all women these days are deciding not to have children.  Add to that a certain percentage of women who have actively involved husbands taking part in the child rearing process.  It seems to me that automatically assuming women are going to be less career dedicated and require more time off is a very narrow sighted way to look at it.




It's not an assumption. A study done in 2011 showed that women took 189 sick days in their career while men took 140 (interestingly enough, even though men took less time, they're more likely to be questioned by their boss for taking time than women are). A study done in Helsinki showed that women took 50% more sick time than men did in a three-year period.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 3:27PM #28
Cesmom
Posts: 4,584

Apr 30, 2012 -- 3:21PM, TENAC wrote:

Cmom your suggesting employers plan on the exceptions, not the rule.



The number of women choosing not to have children has more than doubled over the last 30 years...that's becoming more than an exception.  That's not counting the women with husbands taking an active role in child rearing, allowing them to be more career focused, which is also becoming less of an exception as well.  


Face it, the number of women creating families and/or taking the role of the primary caregiver in their families, has been significantly decreasing and continues to do so.  You're justifying a practice that is based on increasingly outdated ideas.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 3:41PM #29
Jasr
Posts: 11,057

Apr 30, 2012 -- 3:13PM, TENAC wrote:

You work in the medical field, correct? Generally in my area hospitals will shift change at 7:00 am and pm. You inservice both shifts. I'll leave it there.




You specifically referred to a sales job. And yes, I am in the medical field, and yes, I work with vendor employees at odd times of the day and night. But the sales people are pretty much 9 to 5.


But that is beside the point. Maybe your colleague was interviewing candidates for a job which required them to work at 6:00 AM. In that case the proper practice is to state that up front, and ask whether the employee might have trouble complying with the requirement. That is perfectly acceptable, and I ask similar questions all the time. (In fact such requirements are frequently part of the posted job description).


But asking the employee a trick question about a hypothetical requirement that has nothing to do with her actual ability to do the job and everything do do with whether she is a parent of young children is discriminatory and it will rightly get you sued.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 4:14PM #30
TENAC
Posts: 25,069
No, most medical equipment sales people in service what they sell.  Depends on the equipment. 

The best  sales training you can get is either giving an in service or observing one.
Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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