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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 2:30PM #21
rabello
Posts: 22,031

Apr 28, 2012 -- 1:10PM, teilhard wrote:


It IS unfortunate for Osama bin Laden that he DIDN'T surrender.....when confronted by U. S. Soldiers




As if....


Apr 28, 2012 -- 10:28AM, catboxer wrote:


Legitimate governments take suspects alive and try them. The suspects are allowed to see the evidence against them, call their own witnesses, and seek representation from competent attorneys.


Gangsters rub people out.





Thank you, catboxer.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 4:04PM #22
catboxer
Posts: 14,012

Apr 28, 2012 -- 1:10PM, teilhard wrote:


Indeed, The al Qaida Terrorists WERE "Gangsters" bent on just "rubbing People out"  ...




I wasn't talking about their gangsters. Why change the topic?


Is the truth of what we've become too hot to handle?

Adepto vestri stercore simul.ttr
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 5:38PM #23
teilhard
Posts: 51,832

Indeed, "al Qaida" is NO "Fantasy," nor was the CENTRAL Role of "Osama bin Laden" in al Qaida any kind of "Fantasy" ...


The CENTRAL Role of al Qaida -- and Osama bin Laden -- in the ATTACKS on The U. S. S. Cole and on the U. S. Embassies in East Africa (which Attacks MURDERED numerous INNOCENT East African Persons, BTW) and The Attack on  9-11-2001 were NOT "Fantasies," either ...


I DO concede that -- based upon Facts of History -- it was VERY unlikely that Osama bin Laden was EVER voluntarily going to surrender himself to Authorities, hence the NEED to go and GET him ...


Apr 28, 2012 -- 2:25PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 1:11PM, teilhard wrote:


Ummmm ... Not being in The Federal or Internation Law Enforcement / Judicial "Loop," no I don't have The Court/Police/Case Records handy ... Do have that Access ... ???




What you have are your unrealistic fantasies (should have turned himself in!! should have turned himself in!!), but you are not alone, as most Americans harbor such fantasies, which is what allows them to accept the increasing incidents of police brutality, border patrol brutality, torture, execution without trial or conviction, and Obama's (and to be fair, the Democrats') bragging.   So much for American jurisprudence!!


Also, allows them to pitifully lament "why do they hate us so?" and answer themselves "why they hate us for our freedoms, of course" and then just as quickly tune-in to March Madness and April Madness.





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 5:39PM #24
teilhard
Posts: 51,832

No ... I don't regard The U. S. Military Forces as "Gangsters" ...


Apr 28, 2012 -- 4:04PM, catboxer wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 1:10PM, teilhard wrote:


Indeed, The al Qaida Terrorists WERE "Gangsters" bent on just "rubbing People out"  ...




I wasn't talking about their gangsters. Why change the topic?


Is the truth of what we've become too hot to handle?





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 6:14PM #25
rabello
Posts: 22,031

Apr 28, 2012 -- 5:38PM, teilhard wrote:


Indeed, "al Qaida" is NO "Fantasy," nor was the CENTRAL Role of "Osama bin Laden" in al Qaida any kind of "Fantasy" ...


The CENTRAL Role of al Qaida -- and Osama bin Laden -- in the ATTACKS on The U. S. S. Cole and on the U. S. Embassies in East Africa (which Attacks MURDERED numerous INNOCENT East African Persons, BTW) and The Attack on  9-11-2001 were NOT "Fantasies," either ...


I DO concede that -- based upon Facts of History -- it was VERY unlikely that Osama bin Laden was EVER voluntarily going to surrender himself to Authorities, hence the NEED to go and GET him ...




"Go and get him" is a lot different than executing him.


He should have been captured and turned over to the International Criminal Court, not executed in the middle of the night, in his bedroom, unarmed as he was, by an American shooter as representative of the USG, as the representative of the American people.    And 4 or 5 collaterally-damaged "human shields" shouldn't have lost their lives, etiher.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 6:29PM #26
teilhard
Posts: 51,832

You're suggesting that instead we ought to have parachuted-in to The Pakistan Compound a Squad of NYPD Officers or FBI Agents to serve a Warrant and Read Osama bin Laden his "Miranda Rights" ... ???


Here ... we again come up against the very DEEP Problem -- as yet unresolved -- of whether the Anti-Terrorism Program should be (should have been all along) conducted as a "War" or as a "Law Enforcement" Matter ...


I DO agree though that Osama bin Laden was an abject COWARD in using his own FAMILY as "Human Shields" ... What a JERK ... !!!


Apr 28, 2012 -- 6:14PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 5:38PM, teilhard wrote:


Indeed, "al Qaida" is NO "Fantasy," nor was the CENTRAL Role of "Osama bin Laden" in al Qaida any kind of "Fantasy" ...


The CENTRAL Role of al Qaida -- and Osama bin Laden -- in the ATTACKS on The U. S. S. Cole and on the U. S. Embassies in East Africa (which Attacks MURDERED numerous INNOCENT East African Persons, BTW) and The Attack on  9-11-2001 were NOT "Fantasies," either ...


I DO concede that -- based upon Facts of History -- it was VERY unlikely that Osama bin Laden was EVER voluntarily going to surrender himself to Authorities, hence the NEED to go and GET him ...




"Go and get him" is a lot different than executing him.


He should have been captured and turned over to the International Criminal Court, not executed in the middle of the night, in his bedroom, unarmed as he was, by an American shooter as representative of the USG, as the representative of the American people.    And 4 or 5 collaterally-damaged "human shields" shouldn't have lost their lives, etiher.





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 9:38PM #27
rabello
Posts: 22,031

It's not that complicated.  Other countries have been able to capture those who have committed terrorists attacks against their countries and brought them to trial, or get those accused of crimes against humanity to the Hague for international trial.   "Miranda rights" and the NYC police dept, or the DC police dept, or the Shanksville PA dept have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 9:45PM #28
teilhard
Posts: 51,832

Ummmm ... Our "Ally," Pakistan, was HIDING and PROTECTING ObL ... 


Apr 28, 2012 -- 9:38PM, rabello wrote:


It's not that complicated.  Other countries have been able to capture those who have committed terrorists attacks against their countries and brought them to trial, or get those accused of crimes against humanity to the Hague for international trial.   "Miranda rights" and the NYC police dept, or the DC police dept, or the Shanksville PA dept have nothing whatsoever to do with it.





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 9:46PM #29
Nepenthe
Posts: 2,722

Apr 28, 2012 -- 6:29PM, teilhard wrote:

I DO agree though that Osama bin Laden was an abject COWARD in using his own FAMILY as "Human Shields" ... What a JERK ... !!!



Yes, using his family as human shields was inhumane of him.  However, it highlights how the seals were shooting on sight; capturing him was never the objective.  Neither him nor those within his house could have offered any thing resembling resistance to the seals, so capturing him would have been quite simple.

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 9:52PM #30
teilhard
Posts: 51,832

There WAS some Exchange of GunFire ... And ObL was found to have a 9mm and an AK-47 close at hand ...


But ... again ... Was a "White Flag" waved by anyone ... ??? No ...  Did anyone step out with Hands raised ... ???  No ... More to the point, did Osama bin Laden ever during the last DECADE go to the Embassy of his Choice (Iran ... ???  Syria ... ???  China ... ???  North Korea ... ???) and surrender to Authorities ... ???  No ...


And ... also, again ... It remains a bit nuddled as to whether the Anti-Terror Effort is a "War" or a "Criminal Justice" Situation ...  (In a WAR, an Enemy Combatant ISN'T "Mirandized" after a Magistate  issues a Warrant ...)


Apr 28, 2012 -- 9:46PM, Nepenthe wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 6:29PM, teilhard wrote:

I DO agree though that Osama bin Laden was an abject COWARD in using his own FAMILY as "Human Shields" ... What a JERK ... !!!



Yes, using his family as human shields was inhumane of him.  However, it highlights how the seals were shooting on sight; capturing him was never the objective.  Neither him nor those within his house could have offered any thing resembling resistance to the seals, so capturing him would have been quite simple.





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