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Switch to Forum Live View Why half of us don't pay income tax
2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 12:18PM #51
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:42AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:19AM, TENAC wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:24AM, Girlchristian wrote:


This is why I get annoyed when folks claim the "rich" aren't paying their fair share. NONE of us are paying our fair share in taxes and we all have to start doing so if we want to get out of the mess we're in, but there isn't a politician out there, except maybe Ryan whose plan I don't fully agree with, with the balls to say that to Americans.




So if NONE of us are paying our fair share, what exactly do you propose?


Have you considered that the Fed Govtis taking MORE than its "fair share?"



 




Sure it is and that also needs to be fixed, but I'm not like you and other conservatives that think we should cut all social and federal programs completely and just let people fend for themselves even if that means they're dying on the streets. There has to be a balance of good spending and the right collection of taxes. If you're in the 25% tax bracket, but because of tax breaks only pay 9% then are you really paying your fair share? If you're in the 15% tax bracket, but pay nothing because of tax breaks then are you really paying your fair share?




you really think we would them die?

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 12:25PM #52
Cesmom
Posts: 4,665

May 2, 2012 -- 12:18PM, davelaw40 wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:42AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:19AM, TENAC wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:24AM, Girlchristian wrote:


This is why I get annoyed when folks claim the "rich" aren't paying their fair share. NONE of us are paying our fair share in taxes and we all have to start doing so if we want to get out of the mess we're in, but there isn't a politician out there, except maybe Ryan whose plan I don't fully agree with, with the balls to say that to Americans.




So if NONE of us are paying our fair share, what exactly do you propose?


Have you considered that the Fed Govtis taking MORE than its "fair share?"



 




Sure it is and that also needs to be fixed, but I'm not like you and other conservatives that think we should cut all social and federal programs completely and just let people fend for themselves even if that means they're dying on the streets. There has to be a balance of good spending and the right collection of taxes. If you're in the 25% tax bracket, but because of tax breaks only pay 9% then are you really paying your fair share? If you're in the 15% tax bracket, but pay nothing because of tax breaks then are you really paying your fair share?




you really think we would them die?




We already let them die...although usually, it's not in the streets.  Usually, it's in a hospital bed.  They are dying from complications of treatable conditions like diabetes and heart disease...because they couldn't afford the medication they needed or a decent doctor to prescribe it.  By the time their condition becomes "an emergency", the damage is done.


Don't pretend we wouldn't let them die.  We already do.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 12:30PM #53
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

May 2, 2012 -- 12:25PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 12:18PM, davelaw40 wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:42AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:19AM, TENAC wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:24AM, Girlchristian wrote:


This is why I get annoyed when folks claim the "rich" aren't paying their fair share. NONE of us are paying our fair share in taxes and we all have to start doing so if we want to get out of the mess we're in, but there isn't a politician out there, except maybe Ryan whose plan I don't fully agree with, with the balls to say that to Americans.




So if NONE of us are paying our fair share, what exactly do you propose?


Have you considered that the Fed Govtis taking MORE than its "fair share?"



 




Sure it is and that also needs to be fixed, but I'm not like you and other conservatives that think we should cut all social and federal programs completely and just let people fend for themselves even if that means they're dying on the streets. There has to be a balance of good spending and the right collection of taxes. If you're in the 25% tax bracket, but because of tax breaks only pay 9% then are you really paying your fair share? If you're in the 15% tax bracket, but pay nothing because of tax breaks then are you really paying your fair share?




you really think we would them die?




We already let them die...although usually, it's not in the streets.  Usually, it's in a hospital bed.  They are dying from complications of treatable conditions like diabetes and heart disease...because they couldn't afford the medication they needed or a decent doctor to prescribe it.  By the time their condition becomes "an emergency", the damage is done.


Don't pretend we wouldn't let them die.  We already do.




those are preventable conditions caused by bad lifestyle choices-why should those choices be rewarded?

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 12:44PM #54
teilhard
Posts: 50,879

Yes ... The (so-called) "Health" Care Industry in America has become a Profit Center for wealthy Investors ...


So, yes ... (Meanigful) Health Care IS rationed based on Ability-to-Pay ...


May 2, 2012 -- 12:25PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 12:18PM, davelaw40 wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:42AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:19AM, TENAC wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:24AM, Girlchristian wrote:


This is why I get annoyed when folks claim the "rich" aren't paying their fair share. NONE of us are paying our fair share in taxes and we all have to start doing so if we want to get out of the mess we're in, but there isn't a politician out there, except maybe Ryan whose plan I don't fully agree with, with the balls to say that to Americans.




So if NONE of us are paying our fair share, what exactly do you propose?


Have you considered that the Fed Govtis taking MORE than its "fair share?"



 




Sure it is and that also needs to be fixed, but I'm not like you and other conservatives that think we should cut all social and federal programs completely and just let people fend for themselves even if that means they're dying on the streets. There has to be a balance of good spending and the right collection of taxes. If you're in the 25% tax bracket, but because of tax breaks only pay 9% then are you really paying your fair share? If you're in the 15% tax bracket, but pay nothing because of tax breaks then are you really paying your fair share?




you really think we would them die?




We already let them die...although usually, it's not in the streets.  Usually, it's in a hospital bed.  They are dying from complications of treatable conditions like diabetes and heart disease...because they couldn't afford the medication they needed or a decent doctor to prescribe it.  By the time their condition becomes "an emergency", the damage is done.


Don't pretend we wouldn't let them die.  We already do.





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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 1:53PM #55
Cesmom
Posts: 4,665

May 2, 2012 -- 12:30PM, davelaw40 wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 12:25PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 12:18PM, davelaw40 wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:42AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:19AM, TENAC wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:24AM, Girlchristian wrote:


This is why I get annoyed when folks claim the "rich" aren't paying their fair share. NONE of us are paying our fair share in taxes and we all have to start doing so if we want to get out of the mess we're in, but there isn't a politician out there, except maybe Ryan whose plan I don't fully agree with, with the balls to say that to Americans.




So if NONE of us are paying our fair share, what exactly do you propose?


Have you considered that the Fed Govtis taking MORE than its "fair share?"



 




Sure it is and that also needs to be fixed, but I'm not like you and other conservatives that think we should cut all social and federal programs completely and just let people fend for themselves even if that means they're dying on the streets. There has to be a balance of good spending and the right collection of taxes. If you're in the 25% tax bracket, but because of tax breaks only pay 9% then are you really paying your fair share? If you're in the 15% tax bracket, but pay nothing because of tax breaks then are you really paying your fair share?




you really think we would them die?




We already let them die...although usually, it's not in the streets.  Usually, it's in a hospital bed.  They are dying from complications of treatable conditions like diabetes and heart disease...because they couldn't afford the medication they needed or a decent doctor to prescribe it.  By the time their condition becomes "an emergency", the damage is done.


Don't pretend we wouldn't let them die.  We already do.




those are preventable conditions caused by bad lifestyle choices-why should those choices be rewarded?




Sometimes they are...and sometimes they are genetic...you can't make that kind of blanket statement about things like diabetes and heart disease.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 2:01PM #56
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,125

May 2, 2012 -- 1:53PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 12:30PM, davelaw40 wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 12:25PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 12:18PM, davelaw40 wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:42AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:19AM, TENAC wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:24AM, Girlchristian wrote:


This is why I get annoyed when folks claim the "rich" aren't paying their fair share. NONE of us are paying our fair share in taxes and we all have to start doing so if we want to get out of the mess we're in, but there isn't a politician out there, except maybe Ryan whose plan I don't fully agree with, with the balls to say that to Americans.




So if NONE of us are paying our fair share, what exactly do you propose?


Have you considered that the Fed Govtis taking MORE than its "fair share?"



 




Sure it is and that also needs to be fixed, but I'm not like you and other conservatives that think we should cut all social and federal programs completely and just let people fend for themselves even if that means they're dying on the streets. There has to be a balance of good spending and the right collection of taxes. If you're in the 25% tax bracket, but because of tax breaks only pay 9% then are you really paying your fair share? If you're in the 15% tax bracket, but pay nothing because of tax breaks then are you really paying your fair share?




you really think we would them die?




We already let them die...although usually, it's not in the streets.  Usually, it's in a hospital bed.  They are dying from complications of treatable conditions like diabetes and heart disease...because they couldn't afford the medication they needed or a decent doctor to prescribe it.  By the time their condition becomes "an emergency", the damage is done.


Don't pretend we wouldn't let them die.  We already do.




those are preventable conditions caused by bad lifestyle choices-why should those choices be rewarded?




Sometimes they are...and sometimes they are genetic...you can't make that kind of blanket statement about things like diabetes and heart disease.




Actually, research shows that while someone may be predisposed to diabetes and heart disease, diet and lifestyle have a far greater impact on whether or not they get both than genetics does. A healthy lifestyle and diet can overcome the genetics.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 4:19PM #57
Cesmom
Posts: 4,665

May 2, 2012 -- 2:01PM, Girlchristian wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 1:53PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 12:30PM, davelaw40 wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 12:25PM, Cesmom wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 12:18PM, davelaw40 wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:42AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Sure it is and that also needs to be fixed, but I'm not like you and other conservatives that think we should cut all social and federal programs completely and just let people fend for themselves even if that means they're dying on the streets. There has to be a balance of good spending and the right collection of taxes. If you're in the 25% tax bracket, but because of tax breaks only pay 9% then are you really paying your fair share? If you're in the 15% tax bracket, but pay nothing because of tax breaks then are you really paying your fair share?




you really think we would them die?




We already let them die...although usually, it's not in the streets.  Usually, it's in a hospital bed.  They are dying from complications of treatable conditions like diabetes and heart disease...because they couldn't afford the medication they needed or a decent doctor to prescribe it.  By the time their condition becomes "an emergency", the damage is done.


Don't pretend we wouldn't let them die.  We already do.




those are preventable conditions caused by bad lifestyle choices-why should those choices be rewarded?




Sometimes they are...and sometimes they are genetic...you can't make that kind of blanket statement about things like diabetes and heart disease.




Actually, research shows that while someone may be predisposed to diabetes and heart disease, diet and lifestyle have a far greater impact on whether or not they get both than genetics does. A healthy lifestyle and diet can overcome the genetics.




Lifestyle obviously can't cause or correct type 1 diabetes.  I agree that lifestyle is often a major factor in heart disease, however, I think genetics is being under-estimated.  I just had a family member die of heart disease at age 65, and she led an extremely healthy lifestyle all her life...she never drank or smoked, she didn't overeat, and she exercised regularly.  I think there are enough cases of people causing their own health problems with their poor lifestyle choices that we tend to forget that sometimes you're just born with a crappy deck of cards.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 4:49PM #58
Bodean
Posts: 9,432

May 2, 2012 -- 4:19PM, Cesmom wrote:


Lifestyle obviously can't cause or correct type 1 diabetes.  I agree that lifestyle is often a major factor in heart disease, however, I think genetics is being under-estimated.  I just had a family member die of heart disease at age 65, and she led an extremely healthy lifestyle all her life...she never drank or smoked, she didn't overeat, and she exercised regularly.  I think there are enough cases of people causing their own health problems with their poor lifestyle choices that we tend to forget that sometimes you're just born with a crappy deck of cards.





Genetics only predisposes .... lifestyle is what brings that predispostion into reality.


It's true Cesmom ... some people get a bad deck of cards ... but even at that, lifestyle changes can so radically change the outcome that the genetics are rendered almost irrelevant.  Of course, this does not apply to a disorder like Type I diabetes .... but that falls into the realm of diseases, not bad living.


One of the biggest things is the misconception of diet.  The "gods in white coats" have wrongly demonized natural foods, such as fats, as being a problem, when the real culprit is processed foods.  All one needs to do to see what is "good for you" is observe what humans ate 10,000 years ago.  Fruits, veggies, berries, nuts, meats, fish, and unrefined grains, ie, just crushed and made into some sort of patty that passed for bread those days.


What you won't find is refined grains, flours, sugar, candy, potatoe chips, cheetos, big macs, fried chicken, sauces, etc.


It amazes me how many people say .. "I just couldn't live without bread" .. .when the reality is, the bread they eat is probably killing them.  We stimulate our insulin release way too much, which switches the liver to fat production .. more specifically, viceral fat.  Viceral Fat releases chemicals that raise blood pressure, and also stimulte the liver to increase LDL production.  High simple carb diets also result in increased Triglycerides, which create in medicine what is called "small particle LDL" which is more athrogenic than large particle LDL.


NOW .. what this has to do with Paying Taxes .. I have no clue . but what they hay!  :-)

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