Apr 26, 2012 -- 12:23PM, LeahOne wrote:

PS:  Miraj, while you may fully believe you don't 'have a side' - I think that your tag about a 'single state solution' strongly suggests otherwise to most people.

Not 'accusing' anything here, just mentioning something which may be leading people in the wrong direction.

I'm proud of being for the one-state solution.  It's a peace movement indicative of the acceptance of the only goal worthy of an aspiring full democracy in the ME and a way to correct its corrupt history of theft and exploitation.  It's like being in the vanguard of the early South African liberation movement that corrected the errors of the original settlers.  I make no apologies for something I expect to be congratulated in the future for having the foresight to be a part of.

Apr 26, 2012 -- 2:20PM, vra wrote:

Apr 26, 2012 -- 12:29PM, Miraj wrote:

They do exist or I wouldn't mention them.  Kinda funny though; I'm pigeonholed as supporting terrorism by someone (not Leah) who doesn't himself want to be pigeonholed as non-critical of Israel.

Miraj, what won't you do to try and win some sort of debate?  I did not say that you "supported terrorism", but what I did say is that I have never seen you condemn the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah in their attacking Israeli civilians, and that simply is true.  Now, maybe you did when I wasn't here, and that's a possiblity, but I said I haven't actually seen you do this.

Will you kindly report what I say accurately, and if you can't do so, then at least have the decency to refrain from commenting on my posts?

I don't concern myself with "winning" here.  That would ruin anyone's mental health.

Despite repeated efforts to get me to talk about Hamas and their ilk, I don't, period.  So, you have never seen me support or criticise them.  I have my hands full being an Israeli criticising Israel. 

Apr 26, 2012 -- 11:46PM, habesor wrote:

So Miraj,

When VRA said that you have never been seen on this forum being critical of any of the actions of Hamas  et al, you confirm VRA's observation to be a correct.

There are two more questions which should be asked:

Have you ever made statements on this forum critical of the PA or the PLO?

I don't discuss them either.

After being critical of supporters of Israel whose posts on this forum, you allege, contain no criticism of Israel, is it your practice to submit posts here with no criticism of the Palestinians?

I can discuss Palestinian citizens of Israel.  When they need criticism, I can give it.

Apr 27, 2012 -- 12:42AM, habesor wrote:

So, Miraj, after complaining that pro-Israeli posters here never make any statements critical of Israel, it turns out that you never make any statements critical of the Palestinians. Is that correct?

A majority of the participants here are critical of the Palestinians and other Arabs.  So many that they make it look easy.  My time is best spent on other things. And, I said that SOME, not all, pro-Israel posters never criticise Israel.  The majority do, but they are the more reasonable ones.

Miraj,

Before I receive your answer to the above question, I think that it is only fair to show you where I am going with this. It seems to me that one flaw in  the discussion about the Arab-Israeli conflict is that there are some interlocutors who only want to talk about the flaws of one side of the conflict while ignoring the flaws of the other. As a consequence while we should (IMHO) be examining questions of international law, human rights and policy proposals designed to lead to peace between the disputants, we get discussions of flaws in Israeli democracy which ignore the absence of democracy in the Arab states, international law as it applies only to Israel and policy proposals which basically advocate victory of one side over the other. From experience I have come to the conclusion that such one-sided discussions serve only to aggravate the conflict rather than having a potential for alleviating it.

It seems that any discussion of Israel devolves into a pretty exaggerated "but the Arabs are worse" deflection of any issue.  Discussions of any other ME country bores me because discussing them with people who haven't experienced them first hand, getting what they "know" second or third hand is a big waste of time for me.  Chances are that most people here have been to Israel at least once, but a scant few have been anywhere else in the ME.

Though I get some emotional reward when puncturing the arguments of people taking one-sided anti-Israel stands on this conflict and "winning" one for my side, I cannot help but think that in a very important way, it is a big waste of time. There are people who are ruining their lives and being maimed and killed in this conflict. Looking at the sins of one side, as you apparently assert that you are doing, not only does not bring us any closer to ending this conflict but helps, in a very small way, to exacerbate it. As such Miraj, by refusing to talk about Hamas, Hisbollah or the PA, you are making yourself part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

I must confess that I spend very little time with profoundly anti-Israel threads, other than to make sure no one is cursing or being personally insulting.  They make my head hurt, so I skim over them for the purpose of modding rather than peruse them, and rarely engage them.  

I feel no obligation to comment on Hamas, etc.  Like I said, so many do, and, for me, it's a lose-lose proposition.  I spent more than two decades dealing with substantive issues in the ME, so I did my time, occasionally still do, and, when I do, it counts for something.  I'm discerning about what subjects I comment on.  If the level of discourse here was more sophisticated, as it is for me IRL, I might be swayed to open up more, but the likelihood of that is slim to none.  I come here for fun, and pray that it will be. 

BDboy, 

This is in response to yourprevious message though I am only going to cite one small part. You wrote:

"Generally we discuss ISSUES here." 

I would say that we are supposed to discuss issues here but very often we don't. There are a lot of issues to be discussed relating to the Arab-Israeli and Palestinian-Israeli conflict. These include human rights, international law, civil rights, democracy, war crimes, policies, big power influence and a whole bunch of others. Invariably instead of discussing the issues, we discuss how one or the other of the parties in conflict are not living up to the standards we set on any particular issue. So instead of talking about an issue, we end up bashing one or another of the parties. 

You ended your letter with a reference to illegal Israeli settlements. Why not instead, make a reference to the issue of illegal settlements which might include both Israeli and Arab settlements. Then instead of bashing Israel over settlements, we could, in fact, discuss the issue of illegal settlements.

Habesor