Post Reply
Page 1 of 14  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 14 Next
Switch to Forum Live View 60 Minutes on the Plight of Palestinian Christians
3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 10:28PM #1
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

On Sunday, 60 Minutes did a piece on the suffering of Palestinian Christian communities in Bethlehem due to Israeli security policies.  Israeli Ambassador to the US Michael Oren tried to stop the filming because Israel's "democracy" is not so good with criticism, especially if it would possibly affect the flow of dollars from Christian Zionists in the US.


60 Minutes on the Plight of Palestinian Christians  


Last night's 60 Minutes segment about the plight of Christians in the West Bank has gotten a lot of attention, in part because of the attempt by Israeli ambassador Michael Oren to intervene with CBS brass while the segment was being put together. (See the 11-minute point in the video below, where CBS correspondent Bob Simon confronts Oren with this fact.)


You can see why Oren might rather the piece hadn't aired. Things that Palestinian Muslims routinely say about the Israeli occupation may get more traction in America when Palestinian Christians say them. Such as this, from a Christian clergyman: "The West Bank is becoming more and more like a piece of Swiss cheese, where Israel gets the cheese--that is, the land the water resources, the archaeological sites, and the Palestinians are pushed in the holes."

The article and a link to the 60 Minutes piece at the headline link. 

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 24, 2012 - 11:18AM
Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


PhotobucketPhotobucket
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 12:02AM #2
SherriMunnerlyn
Posts: 7,519

60 Minutes addresses the drastically declining Palestinian Christian community, now at under 2% of the population, and the cause of the decline, the Israeli Occupation in Palestine, exposing the truth about the Occupation and its horrible effects on the local Christian Palestinian community.



 The report addresses the Palestinian Christian community presently in the Old City of Jerusalem:


Religious leaders are afraid Jerusalem could become a museum, a spiritual theme park, a great place for tourists and pilgrims, but not for the Arab Christians whose roots date back to the church's very beginnings.


The video also addresses the Christian community in Bethlehem, now constituting only 18% of the population, and surrounded by the Israeli Wall. A family who has remained describes why they stay, as the Wall surrounds them, because this is their Cross to bear.


 
www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7406228n...
    


Sherri


 


 

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 24, 2012 - 01:11AM
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 3:17AM #3
BDboy
Posts: 5,876

Apr 23, 2012 -- 10:28PM, Miraj wrote:


On Sunday, 60 Minutes did a piece on the suffering of Palestinian Christian communities in Bethlehem due to Israeli security policies.  Political Judaism is also cited as a problem.  Israeli Ambassador to the US Michael Oren tried to stop the filming because Israel's "democracy" is not so good with criticism, especially if it would possibly affect the flow of dollars from Christian Zionists in the US.


60 Minutes on the Plight of Palestinian Christians  




 


Yeah, when facing criticism, the "Democratic" Israel goes "Demo-Crazy"!! It starts acting like other ME dictatorships (Thankfully most of them are gone!).


I found most Arab Christians are very supportive of Palestinian cause. Since most of Israeli policies of lanf theft and occupation do not spare them either.


Hope Israel is smart enough to know they cannot rely on their "Dictator friends" to continue occupation anymore.


It is better to embrace change and make ME a truly democratic region for our next generation.

Moderated by Merope on Apr 25, 2012 - 04:05AM
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 9:44AM #4
JAstor
Posts: 3,957

The OP doesn't mention the all-important conclusion in the article cited:


And Simon emphasizes that Israel isn't singling out Christians for persecution; their plight is simply the plight of Palestinians in general--a plight that, Simon notes, is due partly to actions taken by Israel to secure itself against terrorism. 


In other words, if radical Islamist terrorists weren't acting as radical Islamist terrorists, then Israel would not have to take understandable actions to protect its citizens and thus relieve some of the pressure on Christians who choose to live in Arab-Islamic dominated areas. 


Thus, the OP's post is intentionally biased when it states. 


On Sunday, 60 Minutes did a piece on the suffering of Palestinian Christian communities in Bethlehem due to Israeli security policies.  


The Israeli security policies are due, in part at least, to radical Islamist terrorism.




 

Moderated by Merope on Apr 25, 2012 - 04:06AM
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 12:12PM #5
SherriMunnerlyn
Posts: 7,519

Apr 24, 2012 -- 9:44AM, JAstor wrote:


The OP doesn't mention the all-important conclusion in the article cited:


And Simon emphasizes that Israel isn't singling out Christians for persecution; their plight is simply the plight of Palestinians in general--a plight that, Simon notes, is due partly to actions taken by Israel to secure itself against terrorism. 


In other words, if radical Islamist terrorists weren't acting as radical Islamist terrorists, then Israel would not have to take understandable actions to protect its citizens and thus relieve some of the pressure on Christians who choose to live in Arab-Islamic dominated areas. 


Thus, the OP's post is intentionally biased when it states. 


On Sunday, 60 Minutes did a piece on the suffering of Palestinian Christian communities in Bethlehem due to Israeli security policies.  


The Israeli security policies are due, in part at least, to radical Islamist terrorism.




 





JA,


The most interesting part of the story was watching Simon make a fool out of Michael Oren, he is the laughingstock all over the internet today.


I just love this article on Mondoweiss, so appropriately entitled 60 Minutes Profiles Palestinian Christians, Michael Oren Falls On His face Defending Israel


"Oren tries to blame the dwindling Christian community in the West Bank on Islamic extremism, and Palestinian Christians interviewed nearly break out laughing. Not surprisingly, Oren calls Israel's Christian critics anti-Semites."


mondoweiss.net/2012/04/60-minutes-profil...



Sherri

Moderated by Merope on Apr 25, 2012 - 04:08AM
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 12:50PM #6
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

So, J, you're unhappy that I didn't mention that Israel pulls the same crap on Christian Palistinians that it does on Muslim Palestinians? You'd prefer that I would have mentioned that they'rediscriminated against more or less equally? Well, you got it. 


As far as blaming Arabs and Muslims for that (most of those Christians are Arabs, btw), they dispute that themselves. And, BD Boy is right; Christian Palestinians are very involved in the resistance movements. I know a couple of Christian Palestinian attorneys who are in the thick ofthings. That's no secret to knowledgable folks. It's because Israel doesn't discriminate between the crap it gives Christian Arabs and Muslim Arabs that their alligiences are to their freedom and liberty within a "Jewish democracy".

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


PhotobucketPhotobucket
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 2:33PM #7
vra
Posts: 6,403

What isn't being mentioned is the simple fact that the Palestinian Christian community has been marginalized by the Muslem community there, and this has been the case both before and after the Palestinian Authority declared Islam the official religion of the region.  Some may prefer not to believe me, but I have talked with some Palestinian Christians over the years, and at least most that I know left because of greater economic and security opportunities elsewhere, and they were not pleased with being marginalized by the P.A. leadership. 


On top of that, there has been attacks on churches there and it's not by the Israelis, and they've had to eliminate midnight mass on early Christmas mornings because of the fear of being attacked by radical Muslems.  And why wasn't that mentioned in the OP?    


Yes, Israel has contributed to their hardships especially because of the wall, but that wall was and is absolutely essential to Israel's security as we saw before the wall was built.  Didn't those who chose to bomb civilian targets think that there would be consequences for their actions, or didn't they care?   And why wasn't any of this mentioned in the OP?   

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 3:08PM #8
SherriMunnerlyn
Posts: 7,519

Apr 24, 2012 -- 2:33PM, vra wrote:


What isn't being mentioned is the simple fact that the Palestinian Christian community has been marginalized by the Muslem community there, and this has been the case both before and after the Palestinian Authority declared Islam the official religion of the region.  Some may prefer not to believe me, but I have talked with some Palestinian Christians over the years, and at least most that I know left because of greater economic and security opportunities elsewhere, and they were not pleased with being marginalized by the P.A. leadership. 


On top of that, there has been attacks on churches there and it's not by the Israelis, and they've had to eliminate midnight mass on early Christmas mornings because of the fear of being attacked by radical Muslems.  And why wasn't that mentioned in the OP?    


Yes, Israel has contributed to their hardships especially because of the wall, but that wall was and is absolutely essential to Israel's security as we saw before the wall was built.  Didn't those who chose to bomb civilian targets think that there would be consequences for their actions, or didn't they care?   And why wasn't any of this mentioned in the OP?   





vra,


Palestinian Christians spoke out, from Palestine. That was what the story was all about. And we specifically heard from one family in Bethlehem who has had family members who have left, who has the financial ability to leave but who stays and endures hardships of the Occupation and being surrounded by the Wall. We also heard from a prominent businessman there in the West Bank who says no Christians suffer persecution there from Muslims.


And attacks on Christian churches have occurred, this was reported incorrectly in the story, that no such attacks occurred on Churches. The recent attacks on Christian churches have all been by right wing Jewish extremists in Jerusale., like the attack below. There have also been past arsons in churches, believed carried outby Jewish extremists.  And other past attacks on Churches, well we have attacks on Churches by Israeli Forces back in 2002, even a priest was reported as killed by the IDF. This was discussed in past threads on Beliefnet years ago now.


Jewish extremists attack Baptist Church in Jerusalem


Tuesday, 21 February 2012 16:30


www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/news/middle...


October 30, 2010, another Christian church was attacked and set on fire by extremist Jewish settlers.


www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/articles/mi...


The Christian community has generally been described as more affluent then the Arab Muslim community, with more resources to allow them to leave, when faced with the difficulties of the Occupation.


Here is an explanation of what the Christian community has experienced and th an explanation of their declining numbers, from journalist Jonathan Cook.


 link to electronicintifada.net



"In truth, however, the fall in the number of Christians can be explained by two factors, neither of which is related to a clash of civilisations. The first is a lower rate of growth among the Christian population. According to the latest figures from Israel’s Bureau of Census Statistics, the average Christian household in Israel contains 3.5 people compared to 5.2 in a Muslim household. Looked at another way, in 2005 33 percent of Christians were under the age of 19, compared to 55 percent of Muslims. In other words, the proportion of Christians in the Holy Land has been eroded over time by higher Muslim birth rates. But a second factor is equally, if not more, important. Israel has established an oppressive rule for Palestinians both inside Israel and in the occupied territories that has been designed to encourage the most privileged Palestinians, which has meant disproportionately Christians, to leave."


 


Another factor, I expect, is that it is likely easier for Christians versus Muslims to immigrate to certain other countries, like the US, for example.


Sherri


Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 5:50PM #9
vra
Posts: 6,403


vra,


Palestinian Christians spoke out, from Palestine. That was what the story was all about. And we specifically heard from one family in Bethlehem who has had family members who have left, who has the financial ability to leave but who stays and endures hardships of the Occupation and being surrounded by the Wall. We also heard from a prominent businessman there in the West Bank who says no Christians suffer persecution there from Muslims.


 




Sherri, you're cherry-picking the news.  Every day I get Middle Eastern news feeds from A.P., Reuters, BBC, and CNN, plus I've had the advantage of talking with Palestinians there and here.  The reasons for leaving are mixed, and to simply blame Israel for all the problems makes so little sense. 


I spent time at a joint Jewish-Palestinian kibbutz just south of Jerusalem, and I listened to what was being said.  I've been in Bethlehem, although I didn't talk politics with the Palestinians when I was in the city.  I've had students back here in the states who are Palestinian Christians, and I can tell you without one reservation most would tell you that there's more to the story than what you're telling.   

BTW, to use the Middle Easter Monitor, which clearly is a partisan site, for "information" means that there is no intention of attempting to get objective information.  Try some of the sites I mention above as you can get daily news feeds from them. 

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 6:29PM #10
SherriMunnerlyn
Posts: 7,519

Apr 24, 2012 -- 5:50PM, vra wrote:



vra,


Palestinian Christians spoke out, from Palestine. That was what the story was all about. And we specifically heard from one family in Bethlehem who has had family members who have left, who has the financial ability to leave but who stays and endures hardships of the Occupation and being surrounded by the Wall. We also heard from a prominent businessman there in the West Bank who says no Christians suffer persecution there from Muslims.


 




Sherri, you're cherry-picking the news.  Every day I get Middle Eastern news feeds from A.P., Reuters, BBC, and CNN, plus I've had the advantage of talking with Palestinians there and here.  The reasons for leaving are mixed, and to simply blame Israel for all the problems makes so little sense. 


I spent time at a joint Jewish-Palestinian kibbutz just south of Jerusalem, and I listened to what was being said.  I've been in Bethlehem, although I didn't talk politics with the Palestinians when I was in the city.  I've had students back here in the states who are Palestinian Christians, and I can tell you without one reservation most would tell you that there's more to the story than what you're telling.   

BTW, to use the Middle Easter Monitor, which clearly is a partisan site, for "information" means that there is no intention of attempting to get objective information.  Try some of the sites I mention above as you can get daily news feeds from them. 





vra,


I listen to what the Palestinian Christians say,  from every source I can find, in this interview in 60 Minutes, in articles in Christianity Today, in books Palestinian Christians write like Blood Brothers, and We Belong To The Land by Palestinian Christian Archbishop Elias Chacour, in newsletters  about the Occupation and the situation in Palestine, like newsletters I regularly receive and read from Palestinian American  Christian Mazin Qumsiyeh (who presently lives in the West Bank), in articles Palestinian Christians write from Nazareth from the Come And See website, in following articles and posts on websites by the Christian Pastor of Gaza Baptist Church, who I believe is presently stll spending most of his time in Jordan, as he and his wife are not allowed to return to Gaza by the Israeli government, in reading Kairos Palestine, a document written by Palestinian Christians, and following news about that document and correspondence between Christians about that document, in receiving regular emails from CPT, which has CPT members living in Hebron.


I know what is happening to Palestinian Christians because I make a substantial and continued and very intentional effort to stay in touch with what is happening to them, because I care what happens to them and because that is very much a part of what I see as my calling as a Christian today is to do spend my time doing.


I very much admire the Palestinian Christians who stay and endure the Occupation, and my Prayers are with them always. They are beacons of Light shining in a world filled with darkness.


And as for your comments about the Middle East Moniter, I do not see this publication as biased, simply a publication that presents some with uncomfortable truths they would prefer to ignore.


And back to the OP, who is better to tell the story about what is happening to Palestinian Christians but Palestinian Christians themseleves, being interviewed in this story.


We see in the 60 Minutes article desperation on the part of Israel to hide from the world what the Occupation is doing and has done to Palestinian Christians.


And we see some of the Truth being brought into the Light by Palestinian Christians themselves in this story told by 60 Minutes.


Sherri

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 14  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 14 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook