Apr 23, 2012 -- 6:07AM, shmuelgoldstein wrote:

Israel today has the capability to obliterate millions of Arabs, including the whole local Arab population in Yesha and Israel proper. But it does not do so, because that would be against its values.

Oh, please....you did not say that with a straight face did you.

Apr 23, 2012 -- 11:20AM, Miraj wrote:

Israel's values include begging other nations for something they have no power to give because it doesn't exist - the "right to exist" in law and no nation can give it to another nation.  You can't get much pettier than to beg for something that no one has. For as long as it can keep it together on the world stage, a nation exists, but there is no "right" to do so, and no nation is obligated to capitulate to such a silly demand.

Exposing the inability of the Arab and Muslim nations (and individuals in the Middle East) to recognize Israel is not something Israel does to beg for the right to exist but an expression of Arab and Muslim intolerance and hatred of others. Israelis and Jews -- and many, many Westerners -- do not expect any genuine offerings of peace (Sadat was a exceedingly rare exception; and then the Muslim Brotherhood murdered him for his attempts at peace). Asking for it is, for all practical purposes, is a way of broadcasting (to those who will listen) that Israel is dealing with a close-minded, medieval, autocratic, domineering, unchanging, racist and bigoted group mentality. It doesn't matter what Israel does. Centuries old Arab-Muslim group intolerance for others (not just Jews, of course, but Christians and different types of Muslims as well) is an unchanging common denominator. In short, it's a broadcast, not a request. 

Apr 23, 2012 -- 12:03PM, Miraj wrote:

Apr 23, 2012 -- 11:34AM, JAstor wrote:

Apr 23, 2012 -- 11:20AM, Miraj wrote:

Israel's values include begging other nations for something they have no power to give because it doesn't exist - the "right to exist" in law and no nation can give it to another nation.  You can't get much pettier than to beg for something that no one has. For as long as it can keep it together on the world stage, a nation exists, but there is no "right" to do so, and no nation is obligated to capitulate to such a silly demand.

Exposing the inability of the Arab and Muslim nations (and individuals in the Middle East) to recognize Israel is not something Israel does to beg for the right to exist but an expression of Arab and Muslim intolerance and hatred of others. Israelis and Jews -- and many, many Westerners -- do not expect any genuine offerings of peace (Sadat was a exceedingly rare exception; and then the Muslim Brotherhood murdered him for his attempts at peace). Asking for it is, for all practical purposes, is a way of broadcasting (to those who will listen) that Israel is dealing with a close-minded, medieval, autocratic, domineering, unchanging, racist and bigoted group mentality. It doesn't matter what Israel does. Centuries old Arab-Muslim group intolerance for others (not just Jews, of course, but Christians and different types of Muslims as well) is an unchanging common denominator. In short, it's a broadcast, not a request. 

A growing portion of the world isn't buying that.  Those who make policy around the world know that Israel has responsibility for it's failure to make nice with its neighbors.  Diplomacy is a two-way street.

Hah! What a joke!

From the beginning, Arab intransigence has derailed every attempt at peace. The Partition Plan of the United Nations was a disaster for the Jews, but they felt compelled to accept it. Nevertheless, the Arabs rejected it. Then after the UN established the State of Israel the ceasefire lines that were drawn up were also disastrous for the Jews, but the Arabs refused it too. After the 1967 war, the Jews were willing to give back the land they had captured after being attacked, but the Arabs rejected that too. And so forth. Had they accepted any of these at any one time they would be in a far better position. But they never accepted it. 

If you want to talk about lame mythology you need look no further than the fantasy that Israel has a peace partner. 

Since there is no such thing as an Arab or Islamic state that is democratic, chances are the only hope democracy has in the Middle East is if the Arab and Muslim masses join the one state that is democratic: Israel. 

But, of course, that will never happen, because as the title of this thread implies that there are Arab nations that would rather commit suicide than admit the Jews are right and Israel has a right to exist. 

Apr 23, 2012 -- 1:21PM, Miraj wrote:

The one state solution will fix all of that.  No more nonsense about a "democratic, but, Jewish state", no more Zionism, no more stealing land.  Keep making excuses, J, coz it doesn't hurt.  Your Jewish radical right is my friend!

Latest update 03:15 05.04.12

The real radical left

The extreme left is whoever endeavors toward a single state - the plundering settlers, the establishment that embraces them and the majority of Israelis, who do not lift a finger to stop them.

By Gideon Levy

Even a dead body can sometimes twitch reflexively. Here we go again: The settlers have occupied another building. Their lawyer isn't ashamed to boast about the deceptive way the property was acquired. The ministers make their pilgrimages. The defense minister pulls a surprise eviction. The right is furious, the remnants of the left utter praise, and even Europe and America seem satisfied - look, another settler real estate grab has been thwarted.

If it hadn't involved the private property of an unfortunate Palestinian family it would have been one more laughable farce. If we weren't talking about a hopeless rearguard battle there would be a reason for outrage.

But there's no point in outrage now. Migron, Hebron, whatever - the war is over. The victor was declared long ago, the vanquished was defeated long ago, notwithstanding yesterday's evacuation in Hebron. All that's left is the reflexive twitching of the corpse: the targeted removal - a drop in the bucket - and a last gasp from the moribund left.

The part of Hebron under Israeli control, H2 under the 1997 Hebron Protocol, has for years been a ghost town, with hundreds of abandoned apartments and dozens of shuttered stores; a mute testament to the purest and most undeniable form of apartheid. But the "protest" continues: Another house on the wild prairie was saved.

But we could have given the settlers that house; it wouldn't have changed anything. Let them have Migron, that won't make or break anything either. Even the 50 homes in Beit El's Ulpana neighborhood won't change the bigger picture. The occupation is more entrenched than ever, its end more remote than ever, and the settlers have won in a stinging knockout.

It's time to raise the white flag, to admit publicly that the two-state solution has been foiled. There's no point in celebrating yesterday's evacuation of Hamachpela House, because there are thousands of other buildings just like it. It doesn't even pay to fight for the rule of law; if the state has the audacity to try to circumvent a ruling of the High Court of Justice, as it tried to with Migron, even that looks like a lost cause.

Continued at the headline link.